Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I agree with you. However, what I don't want to see happen is the reduction of PVE capability to the point that faction and pirate hulls become better than marauders for that use. It would completely invalidate the ISK and SP investment of those players who already use the Marauder class for its current PVE focus. If modifications to the class to add PVP uses and expand their use into other areas besides level 4 missions can be made while maintaining everything else, great.

it can, but ccp will have to stop focusing on making their changes prioritise defensive tactics, you don't win by isolating yourself from your allies, you don't win by sitting dead still and allowing your enemy to kill you on their terms and you don't win by allowing your opponent the room they need to simply ignore you.

you win by crushing them under your heel with unavoidable force, marauders by default fight at long range - with exception of the kronos (which still can but its current bonus set prioritises close quarters)

give the marauder hulls their optimal/falloff bonus, give them the rate of fire/damage bonus, the repair amount boost bonus and their tracking bonus - this means the default stance to a marauder is to sit at long range and skirmish (like they already do)

allowing them to continue doing what they do already, THEN for the bastion module, invert the role entirely, make its focus an all or nothing attack move, marauders are violent they don't huddle back off in the distance when things get bad they get very angry and aggressive, they defend by attacking indiscriminately - thus removing the thing causing them harm - or perishing in the attempt, this way marauders get a new function, and keep their old one at the same time - all peeps go home happy.

Do you need to see the graph again?
You should probably read this
Are you familiar with the concept of attrition?

yes i do - marauders already fight attrition warfare, through utility high slots sporting remote repair modules, they sit back spider tanking raining death, this is what this iteration of bastion says it's trying to get them to do...just without the RR cuz..you're in bastion mode you can't receive remote aid, this means that if you're within the enemy's firing line while in bastion mode, you die - just as dreads die sieged to battleship alpha fleets now, no amount of self mounted repair modules will save you against a fleet.

bear in mind that if you MJD around as ccp seem to intend, target locks do not break unless you pass beyond lock range, as you're not warping, you're simply moving at high speed to a point 100km infront of you.

marauders already do what ccp is trying to use bastion to make them do, so rather than change what already is by adding a new thing that repeats the old thing in a different manner, keep the old way and add the new one that does something different, expanding the tactics available to use, really simple stuff mate, ccp will still get to justify their MJD bonuses, still get to justify not having RR aid in bastion, still justify not being able to move in bastion, get all the stuff that's on the board in the current proposal (minus web bonus changes) - just orientated toward achieving a different outcome - same things...different way, the result they're trying to achieve...and failing to reach due to the mis-conception that marauders don't work when infact they do.

Or a script for each ( shamelessly stolen from about 2/3 of the posts in this thread)

I'm reasonabley certain that was so cfc can't flood highsec with fleets of the dame things.

[Sorry for formatting this part is a quote from that Goon that's here a lot]

Except that T2 tank and no local-rep bonus on the hull mean that if you don't want to use Bastion you're getting an overall mission-tanking nerf on the Vargur and Paladin but a major buff on the Kronos and Golem due to how damage in missions is distributed.

For a small dissertation on this issue see my previous post way back here.[/quote]

[This is the end of that part that he said]

As a minnie pilot I actually agree. However, I personally think the bastion module/effect is the coolest thing since sliced cheese. I personally would not fly one of these without. I understand many people do not feel the same way. My previous writing was from the perspective that one would ALWAYS be using the bastion module. My current biggest reservation is currently to their mobility. I really wish there was a better way to control the jump range of the mjd. I really have been meaning to try find a way to control the range but it just seems like such a pain for those short/med gates (30 -50 k)

Which is why the new marauders aren't suppose to be PvE focused battleships. Like every other ship in the game they're suppose to be ships that can be used in PvE, but giving them the PvE focus is what ruined them in the first place.

And seriously, if you can't 3 slot tank (4 w/bastion) amarr rats with the paladin you fail pretty hard at this game.

Under the version 2 changes only the deadspace modules provide enough repair potential to tank all missions outside of bastion, thus requiring the use of the bastion module. The benefit of the TQ version is that with the assistance of the local rep bonus on the hull, you could do this with a Tech 2 fit if you chose to.

Adding a deadspace repair module to a faction/pirate hull also allows them to tank all missions. So you wind up with equal tanking potential between faction, pirate, and marauder hulls while the faction and pirate hulls provide better raw DPS and equal or better damage application. Damage projection would be the only benefit of the marauder class over their faction and pirate counterparts. That would not even come close to making up for the difference in training time and ISK cost.

Second, transformation is totally worth the isk/sp, bring it on