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why would you bother fulfilling buy orders?

First post
Author
Iskander Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-08-04 12:59:10 UTC
iv been playing/distracting myself from my dissertation for a few weeks now and iv started to play around with the market. while it seems obvious how sell orders work i don't understand why anyone would bother to fulfill a buy order? i mean your just going to lose profit? i know its a bit faster but is that really so much of an issue? there must be something im missing here?

also it might be obvious that im not doing economics at uni haha! :P
Eli Kzanti
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-08-04 13:00:41 UTC
Ever sold over 200 different mods on the market that you hoarded for a while as loot?

Trust me, you'll sell to buy orders if you do.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-08-04 13:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Sometimes the difference between buy and sell prices is very small. Setting up a sell order involves broker fees, selling to a buy order doesn't. Sell orders can sit for days, weeks, even months without actually being sold.

If it's a difference between 1 million now and 1.1 million at most (because you may have to drop the price) that may take a few days to be sold, why would you not sell to the buy order.

Edit: Oh, and there's a maximum number of outstanding orders that you can have. So if you do have 200 different items you want to sell, you've got a choice between putting up batches of sell orders, watching them and changing them all the time, repeat until you've managed to get all 200 up on the market and tossing them all to buy orders and being done with it.

Time isn't free.
Kyra Quinn
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-04 13:07:57 UTC
It depends really, setting up a sell order means you pay more taxes and quite often that means simple selling or setting up an order results in the same profit. That is if you don't have to revisit that order 5 times a day and end up getting less than you expected.

For many items I've found that you might as well just sell the easy way, for some (if the difference is too much) I'll set up an order.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#5 - 2013-08-04 13:21:29 UTC
All of the above; plus, occasionally, you'll get an unbelievably good deal on a buy order. Always check them.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#6 - 2013-08-04 14:03:57 UTC
Iskander Phoenix wrote:
iv been playing/distracting myself from my dissertation for a few weeks now and iv started to play around with the market. while it seems obvious how sell orders work i don't understand why anyone would bother to fulfill a buy order? i mean your just going to lose profit? i know its a bit faster but is that really so much of an issue? there must be something im missing here?

isk per hour?
Iskander Phoenix wrote:

also it might be obvious that im not doing economics at uni haha! :P

and you just sold yourself out as a youngster, the correct eve quote would be that I didn't do economics at uni, 20 years ago ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Iskander Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-08-04 14:10:32 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Iskander Phoenix wrote:
iv been playing/distracting myself from my dissertation for a few weeks now and iv started to play around with the market. while it seems obvious how sell orders work i don't understand why anyone would bother to fulfill a buy order? i mean your just going to lose profit? i know its a bit faster but is that really so much of an issue? there must be something im missing here?

[quote=Iskander Phoenix]
also it might be obvious that im not doing economics at uni haha! :P

and you just sold yourself out as a youngster, the correct eve quote would be that I didn't do economics at uni, 20 years ago ;)


lol and my avatar didnt give it away already? :P i was actually quite successful in making it look just like me. although my Mohawk has grown out now :(
Sam Wessette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-08-04 18:14:43 UTC
The real question is. Who wouldn't fill a buy order ?

I wan't my isk NOW. I don't have the time (or order slots) to wait for a sell order
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#9 - 2013-08-04 23:14:34 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Time isn't free.


See also: Opportunity Cost
Iskander Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-08-04 23:23:04 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Time isn't free.


See also: Opportunity Cost


very true!
Zyrus I
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-08-05 03:51:20 UTC
The answers in this thread is the reason traders are filthy rich, and is the only worth thing doing for isk.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#12 - 2013-08-05 09:15:24 UTC
Often buy orders are available where you are, while sell orders are several jumps away.

If time is everything to you, you can sell to a 10j wide buy order and accept a small opportunity cost. Or if you have lots of time, you can carry the module several jumps.

There's also some other tricks you can do with buy orders (post a buy order for an item at the price you want to sell that item for, wait for someone with a bulk buy order to 0.01 ISK you, then dump your whole stock on them and cancel your buy order).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-08-05 10:07:29 UTC
Zyrus I wrote:
The answers in this thread is the reason traders are filthy rich, and is the only worth thing doing for isk.

C6 inhabitants might disagree.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Iskander Phoenix
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-08-05 10:10:11 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Zyrus I wrote:
The answers in this thread is the reason traders are filthy rich, and is the only worth thing doing for isk.

C6 inhabitants might disagree.


C6? is that a null sec system?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-08-05 10:13:28 UTC
Iskander Phoenix wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Zyrus I wrote:
The answers in this thread is the reason traders are filthy rich, and is the only worth thing doing for isk.

C6 inhabitants might disagree.


C6? is that a null sec system?

no, it's the highest class of wormhole system, where the big boys live. check out the wormhole forum or google 'eve capital escalations' for more info.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2013-08-05 12:48:18 UTC
Iskander Phoenix wrote:
iv been playing/distracting myself from my dissertation for a few weeks now and iv started to play around with the market. while it seems obvious how sell orders work i don't understand why anyone would bother to fulfill a buy order? i mean your just going to lose profit? i know its a bit faster but is that really so much of an issue? there must be something im missing here?

also it might be obvious that im not doing economics at uni haha! :P


(1) People have a limited number of order slots

(2) They might need ISK now for a much more important issue

(3) They might not want to risk returning to the station or even the region. EG: if someone is leaving to join a new alliance.

(4) The difference might simply not be large enough to care about, especially if they're selling off a large volume of heterogenous items like a pile of rat loot. When you need to sell 500 items of 200-300 types, it's just not worth the effort to get an extra few percentage points on an item that only sells for a small amount anyway and you only have maybe 1-3 of them.

It's more efficient to "lose" a few hundred ISK and spend the time missioning: in the time it takes me to research the price history and "true" value of a meta 1 Cap Flux Coil, I can kill maybe a couple of rat BS worth a million ISK instead.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2013-08-05 15:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Daniel Plain wrote:
no, it's the highest class of wormhole system, where the big boys live. check out the wormhole forum or google 'eve capital escalations' for more info.

For what it is worth, in a C5 system with 8 combat + 2 salvage/hacking/archeology ships + 1 booster ship controlled by only 4 people, we averaged 750 million to 1.1 billion each per 4 hour evening, largely depending on site availability (sites with T3 hull artifacts > combat-only sites), and how many times we wanted to roll our static outbound C5 wormhole (time consuming).

We used remote rep Tengu Strategic Cruisers with passive resists. They cost 1.2 billion ISK each. The corp paid for any replacements if there were losses. We lost 2 of them to unexpected PvP (they forgot to bookmark the wormhole home), and about 3 to carelessness while doing sites, and 1 to a POS with an attitude problem. The corp maintained an emergency fund of 2.5 billion ISK per member.

We didn't bother doing C6 very often, as their sites have a lot more sub-battleship Sleepers, and the battleships are more profitable when you have limited ships and time. Being able to do 4 capital escalations (triggering one wave at a time: Chimera, Revelation, Revelation, Chimera) in our own C5 system was more profitable, and safer, than doing 1 capital escalation in a neighboring C5 or C6.

It took me 2 ships to clear C5 and C6 mining and gas sites, but that was not for the squeamish: the first ship warped-in alone to get all aggro, especially neuts, and couldn't rep until the second ship arrived moments later, to avoid both ships getting neuted.

We found we could do C4 sites with 4 ships controlled by 2 people, but they were so incredibly easy that it was hard to stay awake.

C3 and below could be done with 1-2 people in T2 fitted battlecruisers or battleships.
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#18 - 2013-08-05 15:45:52 UTC
As a trader I sell to buy orders sometimes in conjunction with manipulations. Build up a stockpile of materials, manipulate the market to where the item is overvalued, then dump all your stock at once for a profit. The continuing manipulation of the crash that will almost certainly follow will allow for a rebuild up of stocks at rock bottom prices.

Tears and profits are a lovely combination.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards

Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-08-05 16:56:42 UTC
Time is money. $100 million right now is better than $110 million next week.

Also, you have a limited number of orders you can put on the market. If you have not trained trading skills, a VERY limited number of orders. If you have 200 stacks of loot it would take you years to sell it all with sell orders.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#20 - 2013-08-05 18:28:24 UTC
One of the few rules of economics that's actually a hard and fast rule is that a dollar (or whatever) now has more value than a dollar tomorrow. How much you value immediate access to currency so you can do something of value with it versus potentially making a bit more money in the end is a personal judgement more than anything in an artificial market, but the fact that there will always be _some_ tipping point where the increased income is no longer worth the delay is an immutable economic law.

Welcome to Eve, where everything is PvP and PvP is Econ 102.
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