Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I hope your'e rebalancing Interceptors, Covert Ops Frigates, and EWAR Frigs first...

Well I do hope you still look at using the mineral hauler as a ice product hauler also

Since you're f*cking the ships up, yet again, I demand I get my SP back that I dumped into those ships.


As an industrialists, I'm disgusted at these "changes" you've made. Some of these changes are good, but some aren't needed. You pride yourself on listening to the community, yet you ignored the ones that it effects the most. I'm losing faith in CCP and this game.

Provide more details and be more specific on such regarding the changes. I don't know if your standpoint was mentioned, but CCP will continue to "listen" up to the point of what you are putting in the post.


And the frakking HACs can frakking wait until it's their turn.

From page 2

He probably wants more underutilized/marginalized ships and for the rest of the Industrials (except the Itty V) to continue to be garbage/uninspired/lolfits.

The problem is, everything but the Gallente line is garbage/uninspired/lolfits.

Gallente get the 3 most useful restricted bays with the advantage of being able to be fit in more interesting ways since they don't require cargo expanding mods and rigs. And the Iteron V is still the big hauling no tank ship it was before.


This is a _very_ incomplete balancing pass. It gave some new and interesting ships to the Gallente line, and left that other the same tired old 'small/fast' and 'big/slow' and forced to fit 'max expanded' to actually haul a useful amount of volume.


And everyone is just "this is perfect, now lets move back to combat ships". Yes, Industrials aren't sexy, but damn near everyone in the game uses them from time to time, and they are a staple for newbies. So far CCP have done an awesome job balancing even the cheapest frigates and cruisers. But this tiericide is total crap. It is still tiered in that their are small and big tiers, meaning most people will still just buy the big ones, and the minor HP and speed difference mean nothing because all these ships are going to be fit the same way.

Seriously, 5% to velocity is dumb when you are forced to fit a bunch of modules that do -10% velocity. Giving the Sigil 'most HP' is pointless if you can't use the low slots to augment it. Why doesn't it get the Amarr armor resists? Every other class of Amarr ship gets at least 1 ship with those resists. Why doesn't the Industrial class get some racial flavor? They all have they same exact bonuses between races.

If CCP Rise just doesn't want to finish balancing Industrial because they are boring, then find some one else to do it. Just don't leave it in the same state that it was found; crappy ships forced into gimped fits, and Gallente is still the only one worth training if you want to haul a lot of stuff.

There is no other aspects to these ships than 'haul stuff'. The Sigil, Badger, Wreathe and Iteron I all have the exact same bonus. The max expanded value are put into the stats in the OP because that is exactly what is expected for fitting. They have no other role and no other bonuses to help in that role. Unless you really expect that sticking with the 3000-4000m3 base cargo is what people are going to go with, but they haven't so far and it looks like CCP expects them to keep doing it. They got a bit more base hp and grid/cpu, which is nice. But they all go about the same buffs, so that tier is still homogeneous.

The small ships are going to be skipped for the same reason they are now. The only measure, and only real bonus, of these ships is the cargo capacity. Why use a Wreathe when a Mammoth holds more? Why train Cadari for anything other than the freighter prereq when Gallente hauls just as much cargo and gets the special hulls. Oh yah, the lolfit Battle Badger.



I don't see how people are missing this. If the cruiser rebalance did nothing but give all the ships the same rate-of-fire and agility bonus, no one would have called it good. People would have still just gone for the ships that fit the most guns, and the other would collect dust. This thing with the Industrials is the same. Each race gets a small and big cargo ship with identical bonuses, and Gallente also get the restricted ships, which leaves us right back with Gallente being the race to train for Industrials.

I'm Minmatar through and though - thanks to a short 1 year stint in FW. Now the Hoarder!! :)

NewHoarder Appreciation Post

Right - Currently there are High profit options to T1 manufacture that I do. There are two options here. There are very high mark up per sale items but the quantities do not shift on these and then there are lesser marked up items that shift very large quantities. And you profit at isk/hour or isk/week - and you look at the best use of your limited manufacture slots.

As it turns out - currently where I trade - Ammunition (once many popular variations are being made) - produces the highest (reliable) isk/week of any of my blueprints. There are much higher mark up items but they will not sell the quantities - so I can produce more than I can sell - much more - so standard haulers would work for them - and I won't make them that often.

There also appears to be a trend in what must be the PvE use of non faction Cap Booster charges. Less profitable, (because I suspect people keep massive stock piles of ammo - but not so much Cap Charges). . . . But Cap Charges were something I wouldn't make too much of because of the need to then use Freighters to move them and Freighters are soooo slooowwww - it comes down to logistics of getting them to market - and my free time is worth more than that - because a round trip for CAP Boosters is time equiv. to a Level 4 mission and salvage - (and LP to turn my ammo into faction ammo for larger profit) - and the profit will not cover it. So I potentially will monitor the Cap Booster market - but only send them to market when I have ships to sell and am taking a Freighter anyway. (Making ships is a vanity project because the margins are so tight - but I like doing it).

However Ammunition is pretty small in the most part - and I could move it all at will already. Except for Torpedeos and Cruise Missiles - but with access to almost 2.2 times as much hold capacity as my old Mammoth - I will be able to get more of this to market - and if I don't like the large missiles - I can use Cap Boosters instead!

So - I will be getting Hoarders with the intent of using them to transport my ammunition to Rens - specifically with a view to start producing more of the large missile varieties - esspecially now as the new CNR and RF Typhoon are even better! I just see this giving me a use for all three Minnie industrials - when I only used to use the Mammoth.

I am going to miss the mammoth mid slot. I do get suicided en-route to Rens. I could survive a salvo from an arty Tornado down to ~15% sheilds before - but a DCU will now be needed I guess. If I take a Hoarder and a Mammoth - I can split the goods better now and take vast amounts more of the things I sell - the Mammoth will still have the highest value of goods - but will be able to lose a low to a DCU because medium rigs aren't big and paste isn't big either - other than that it is an assortment of meta 3 and 4 loot and some left over PI stuff for POS fuel and Paste. . .

I wonder - Will Nanite Repair Paste fit in the Hoarder ammo bay? (it doesn't matter because it's tiny but meh!)

And If I take the two ships I'll get the fleet boost so - Yeah - mightn't miss the mid too much . .. maybe if I take the DCU

So - I'm super excited - I will be able to take more stuff to market more quickly - and will have fun thinking about what ships I'll take - more choices and decissions!

simply because gallente has so many industrial hulls. you might realise, that the races minmatar and gallente which got specialised industrials are infact those two races with more then two T1-industrial hulls ;)



it has been confirmed already that any kind of charge goes into the ammo-bay of newHoarder.




do you plan to change everything again, with those mysterious "industrial changes in the pipe"?
what kind of change in function might that be?