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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

First post
Author
Claude Olerie
Doomheim
#881 - 2013-09-04 05:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Claude Olerie
The new industrials with Specialized bays are overpowered.

Unlike normal industrials, they do not need cargohold expanders or cargo optimization rigs. Instead they can fit a full rack of warp stabs and low friction nozzle joint rigs.

-ultra cheap
-many warp stabs
-lots of agility
-oversized bay

Just like ventures, these ships are totally out of balance with any other ships of their class. This sort of ship specialization is T2 domain, not ultra cheap T1's. They simply have too much bang for their buck.

They should be easier to catch (fewer lowslots), have less cargospace or be an expensive T2 ship.
Meyr
Pirannha Corp
#882 - 2013-09-04 07:35:20 UTC
Wah, wah, wah, boo-hoo.

You got the two most popular Industrial hulls in the game, the Iteron V and the Bestower (which someone earlier asked why it's so popular, it was a broken mechanic that let you fly it with only one skill level invested), made even easier to gank, giving you a plethora (look it up) of targets, and you're complaining that you actually have to WORK at catching a few of the newer designs?

Take the advice you 'elite PVP'ers' always use when responding to carebears - HTFU! Bring help, plan better, use the tools you have available, or STFU.

Personally, I hate the new Industrial line-up, but I'll either sell or scrap my Iteron V's & Bestowers, and adapt.

I suggest you do the same.
Edam Neadenil
Bax Corporation
#883 - 2013-09-04 11:39:03 UTC
I just upped the grid on a Nereus with a couple of Power diagnostics and managed to fit an Improved Cloak and a 10MN MWD ... and still had grid for a Large Shield Extender II and invuls. Thats without using any rigs at all.

A total of 23k EHP, whilst managing a cloak and MWD in an industrial was previously unheard of .
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
#884 - 2013-09-04 11:44:36 UTC
Edam Neadenil wrote:
I just upped the grid on a Nereus with a couple of Power diagnostics and managed to fit an Improved Cloak and a 10MN MWD ... and still had grid for a Large Shield Extender II and invuls. Thats without using any rigs at all.

A total of 23k EHP, whilst managing a cloak and MWD in an industrial was previously unheard of .

Can you squeeze a large ASB on there? One of those fully loaded gives more EHP than an LSE.

Confirming that I will never engage a Nereus in a wormhole without backup... I made that mistake with a skiff recently - cost me 2 T3 ships for 1 skiff ... Pirate


Killboard link

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#885 - 2013-09-04 14:21:58 UTC
Claude Olerie wrote:
The new industrials with Specialized bays are overpowered.


Boo ****ing hoo.
"I sense a great disturbance in EVE, as if thousands of pathetic gate campers suddenly cried out in terror, and were silenced..."

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#886 - 2013-09-04 16:04:38 UTC
Claude Olerie wrote:
The new industrials with Specialized bays are overpowered.

Unlike normal industrials, they do not need cargohold expanders or cargo optimization rigs. Instead they can fit a full rack of warp stabs and low friction nozzle joint rigs.

-ultra cheap
-many warp stabs
-lots of agility
-oversized bay

Just like ventures, these ships are totally out of balance with any other ships of their class. This sort of ship specialization is T2 domain, not ultra cheap T1's. They simply have too much bang for their buck.

They should be easier to catch (fewer lowslots), have less cargospace or be an expensive T2 ship.


Whaaaaa, Whaaaa my soft targets have gone....

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
#887 - 2013-09-04 16:24:24 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Claude Olerie wrote:
The new industrials with Specialized bays are overpowered.


Boo ****ing hoo.
"I sense a great disturbance in EVE, as if thousands of pathetic gate campers suddenly cried out in terror, and were silenced..."


Star Wars parodies are best parodies Big smile

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Parum Succurro
Heavy Machinery Inc.
#888 - 2013-09-05 01:09:34 UTC
It seems that the market seeded BPOs for the ships that received EHP buffs were not increased in value as they have been for other ship classes. CCP is this oversight or working as intended?

Wreathe for example.
Servian Scargotti
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#889 - 2013-09-05 07:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Servian Scargotti
I'm a new player, and I hate the changes (read: nerf) to the Iteron Mark V as well as all this stuff about different ships with special holds for hauling different things. As a noob, I didn't even know what PI was when I read it in the OP. It seems like all these changes are going to make things even more confusing for us new players, require lots more ISK and training time, and make life easier for the gankers....

When I started playing Eve about a month ago, I chose the Gallente race. I didn't have the wildest clue how it would matter. I didn't know how biased this whole game is towards seasoned players. I was a noob... remember what that felt like? What do I do to make this game fun? How do I make ISK? Should I join a CORP? Which one? Holy-hell!! Why did that guy just blow up my ship?!! Should I put money in that BLINK thing? What skills should I train? Why do individuals in a civilization advanced enough to be capable of space travel not have the cognitive ability to plan what skills they will train farther out than a 24 hour queue?

Since then I've joined a corp and braved the wilds of low-sec. I have quickly learned that not getting blown up all the time requires having good ships with good fittings. And... that requires ISK. LOTS of ISK! So like a noob, I've tried to make some ISK tinkering with missions, mining, trading and hauling,etc. I learned about markets and the whole "buy low, sell high" thing. Being a noob without the bankroll to make the cost of freight services affordable, I saw an opportunity to make some ISK by buying stuff in Jita and risk hauling it out to our CORP base in lowsec, where I could sell it and make some decent noob cash. I just needed a decent hauling ship.

The training path to Blockade Runners and Jump Frigates is a long and expensive one. So I turned to the one ship in the Gallente fleet that a poor noob like me could afford: the Iteron Mark V. I found that I could actually survive cargo runs from Jita to low-sec with a few T1 fittings, some practice with Align/Cloak, and balls of pure steel. I didn't even use an MWD, because I didn't have the skills for the Improved Cloaking Device. I just tanked my ship the best I could, bought as much Jita junk as my noob wallet would let me buy, and ran like hell to our base way out in lowsec.

I found what items were in short supply at our low-sec base, flew to Jita, then back to put that stuff on the market. I had to work fast, before the experienced players could buy that stuff in Jita with their alts trained to all 5's in Trading skills, and have a freight Corp ship it back, all without having to leave their cozy captains quarters at home base. My advantage was that I could haul it myself faster than the freight contractors could get around to moving those items in their T-infinity ships. I took the risk. So long as my ship held together, and if I bought the right stuff that actually sold for a decent markup, I might make 10 to 20 million ISK per run. Don't laugh, I'm a noob... And the thing that made this grand venture in to markets and low-sec hauling possible was my faithful Ity V.

When someone told me that changes to Industrial ships were coming, I thought "Great! They'll probably make my Iteron Mark V a little harder to destroy... mabye make it as hard as punching through two or three wet paper bags, instead of just one!" I had secret hopes of seeing T1 industrials get buffed with a +1 to warp core stabilzers, or some such thing... But now I learn that the Ity V has been nerfed all to hell. So there is now no Gallente industrial ship within reach of a noob's skill level and budget that has even a remote chance of surviving hauling runs into low-sec, or holding up against endless waves of roving WT squads flying Insta-lock Thrashers.

The new changes have now put lights, bells and pyrotechnics around the already glaring "Gank Me" sign hanging on the back of my Iteron Mark V. Just yesterday, I finally completed skills training to use the Improved Cloaking Device. I was ready to haul some more stuff from Jita and dole out major doses of demoralizing failure to the WTs and low-sec gate campers... courtesy of my newly fitted Cloaky/MWD Iteron Mark V!!! For a noob, low-sec gate camps are terribly risky because a noob-fitted Ity V has roughly a whopping 6500 hitpoints. I felt a supernova sized let down today when I discovered that, without me having to unfit any rigs or modules from my ship, the hitpoints have now dropped to only 4300! And, as a bonus kick in my formerly steel nether-regions, my freight hauler is SLOWER!

Sadly, what was once the poor man's Blockade Runner, is now just a guaranteed Killmail generator. Truely, I felt like a god breaking through Chatgris' gate camp in my noobtastic, all T1 fit, Iteron Mark V... Now I am forced to abandon my budding trade-hauling-industry career. Unless things change, I'll be keeping my Iteron Mark V in the low-sec Corp dock, and flying my Venture back to high-sec to mine Veldspar until I get bored enough to never log back into Eve. Cry
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#890 - 2013-09-05 11:41:39 UTC
Well, you came along at a time when the Itty V was as easy to fly as all the other haulers and a ton better. Not so long ago it was harder to fly in compensation, and the state of affairs you enjoyed was always intended to be temporary. Now things are different.

So, you want a T1 entry-level losec hauler? Well rather than throwing up your hands because your Itty V got made redundant in that role, consider your other choices. For example, the Nerus (was the 'Iteron') - it won't carry as much as your old Iteron V, but it's much tougher (though I'd probably go with a Badger out of the fast & tanky choices). Or, train for the Bestower, which can mount a half-reasonable tank and carry more cargo than it did before the patch.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#891 - 2013-09-05 19:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Servian Scargotti wrote:
I'm a new player, and I hate the changes (read: nerf) to the Iteron Mark V as well as all this stuff about different ships with special holds for hauling different things. As a noob, I didn't even know what PI was when I read it in the OP. It seems like all these changes are going to make things even more confusing for us new players, require lots more ISK and training time, and make life easier for the gankers....

When I started playing Eve about a month ago, I chose the Gallente race. I didn't have the wildest clue how it would matter. I didn't know how biased this whole game is towards seasoned players. I was a noob... remember what that felt like? What do I do to make this game fun? How do I make ISK? Should I join a CORP? Which one? Holy-hell!! Why did that guy just blow up my ship?!! Should I put money in that BLINK thing? What skills should I train? Why do individuals in a civilization advanced enough to be capable of space travel not have the cognitive ability to plan what skills they will train farther out than a 24 hour queue?

Since then I've joined a corp and braved the wilds of low-sec. I have quickly learned that not getting blown up all the time requires having good ships with good fittings. And... that requires ISK. LOTS of ISK! So like a noob, I've tried to make some ISK tinkering with missions, mining, trading and hauling,etc. I learned about markets and the whole "buy low, sell high" thing. Being a noob without the bankroll to make the cost of freight services affordable, I saw an opportunity to make some ISK by buying stuff in Jita and risk hauling it out to our CORP base in lowsec, where I could sell it and make some decent noob cash. I just needed a decent hauling ship.

The training path to Blockade Runners and Jump Frigates is a long and expensive one. So I turned to the one ship in the Gallente fleet that a poor noob like me could afford: the Iteron Mark V. I found that I could actually survive cargo runs from Jita to low-sec with a few T1 fittings, some practice with Align/Cloak, and balls of pure steel. I didn't even use an MWD, because I didn't have the skills for the Improved Cloaking Device. I just tanked my ship the best I could, bought as much Jita junk as my noob wallet would let me buy, and ran like hell to our base way out in lowsec.

I found what items were in short supply at our low-sec base, flew to Jita, then back to put that stuff on the market. I had to work fast, before the experienced players could buy that stuff in Jita with their alts trained to all 5's in Trading skills, and have a freight Corp ship it back, all without having to leave their cozy captains quarters at home base. My advantage was that I could haul it myself faster than the freight contractors could get around to moving those items in their T-infinity ships. I took the risk. So long as my ship held together, and if I bought the right stuff that actually sold for a decent markup, I might make 10 to 20 million ISK per run. Don't laugh, I'm a noob... And the thing that made this grand venture in to markets and low-sec hauling possible was my faithful Ity V.

When someone told me that changes to Industrial ships were coming, I thought "Great! They'll probably make my Iteron Mark V a little harder to destroy... mabye make it as hard as punching through two or three wet paper bags, instead of just one!" I had secret hopes of seeing T1 industrials get buffed with a +1 to warp core stabilzers, or some such thing... But now I learn that the Ity V has been nerfed all to hell. So there is now no Gallente industrial ship within reach of a noob's skill level and budget that has even a remote chance of surviving hauling runs into low-sec, or holding up against endless waves of roving WT squads flying Insta-lock Thrashers.

The new changes have now put lights, bells and pyrotechnics around the already glaring "Gank Me" sign hanging on the back of my Iteron Mark V. Just yesterday, I finally completed skills training to use the Improved Cloaking Device. I was ready to haul some more stuff from Jita and dole out major doses of demoralizing failure to the WTs and low-sec gate campers... courtesy of my newly fitted Cloaky/MWD Iteron Mark V!!! For a noob, low-sec gate camps are terribly risky because a noob-fitted Ity V has roughly a whopping 6500 hitpoints. I felt a supernova sized let down today when I discovered that, without me having to unfit any rigs or modules from my ship, the hitpoints have now dropped to only 4300! And, as a bonus kick in my formerly steel nether-regions, my freight hauler is SLOWER!

Sadly, what was once the poor man's Blockade Runner, is now just a guaranteed Killmail generator. Truely, I felt like a god breaking through Chatgris' gate camp in my noobtastic, all T1 fit, Iteron Mark V... Now I am forced to abandon my budding trade-hauling-industry career. Unless things change, I'll be keeping my Iteron Mark V in the low-sec Corp dock, and flying my Venture back to high-sec to mine Veldspar until I get bored enough to never log back into Eve. Cry


Dude just pick a different ship, they are dirt cheap. Anyhow think how lucky you are. There was a time when every ship you trained for was nerfed and skill trained was invalidated. It's the nature of the game...

Spaceship Command 3 and a L1 racial skill is hardly the end of the world...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
#892 - 2013-09-07 14:53:48 UTC
Honey HAM Badger doesn't give a crap. But I do, and I like it!

Would be nice to have a Fleet Hangar option for the awesome 2 gun Hoarder for fleet restocking on the fly as the Hoarder takes down frigates or something Lol
Mr Beardsley
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#893 - 2013-09-09 05:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Beardsley
I've looked, I've studied, I've tried out a few different industrial setups...and I have to say that overall I'm mildly displeased with the changes. About all I can say is, "it could have been worse". The mighty Mk V is now obsolete - I think the majority of us can agree on that. Gallente at least gains the only specialized ship worth using, the Miasmos. As for the other special haulers..let's be honest, nobody is going to stop using Orcas and blockade runners in favor of a Nereus or whatever. Caldari pilots seem to be the major winners with the Tayra replacing the Mk V as the general hauler of choice, although I think its maybe a bit less tankable now. The more I think about it the more I'm starting to side with the people saying we just need low slot specialized bays that eat up most of your cargo space. Devs could still control which ships can use which bays either through base cargo requirements or simply limiting which ships can equip them.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#894 - 2013-09-09 12:26:30 UTC
Mr Beardsley wrote:
I've looked, I've studied, I've tried out a few different industrial setups...and I have to say that overall I'm mildly displeased with the changes. About all I can say is, "it could have been worse". The mighty Mk V is now obsolete - I think the majority of us can agree on that. Gallente at least gains the only specialized ship worth using, the Miasmos. As for the other special haulers..let's be honest, nobody is going to stop using Orcas and blockade runners in favor of a Nereus or whatever. Caldari pilots seem to be the major winners with the Tayra replacing the Mk V as the general hauler of choice, although I think its maybe a bit less tankable now. The more I think about it the more I'm starting to side with the people saying we just need low slot specialized bays that eat up most of your cargo space. Devs could still control which ships can use which bays either through base cargo requirements or simply limiting which ships can equip them.


Not sure why you'd take a Tayra over a Bestower - this is not a role where tank should even be relevant. As for the notion that people would replace Orcas or Tech II haulers with these - why would anyone think that they would? These ships are not intended to compete with blockade runners or the Orca. They're intended to give a cheap and fairly easy to learn to fly option for low SP pilots, and for when you don't need the capability of the more expensive ships. If the new Wreathe competed with the Prowler CCP would have screwed up. It doesn't, and they didn't.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#895 - 2013-09-09 19:32:30 UTC
Loving the new industrials, well done CCP!

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#896 - 2013-09-11 09:52:20 UTC
Unpinning, 1.1 has been released.
Servian Scargotti
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#897 - 2013-09-24 02:52:22 UTC
I was actually relieved when my Iteron Mark V got blown up the other day... the stupid nerf made it a worthless piece of junk. The only time I see an Iteron Mark V these days is when a noob posts their kill mail.
Mr Coffee
The Coffee Collective
#898 - 2013-09-29 01:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Coffee
Great scott! It's a hauler update! Spiffy!

While I'm excited (and I'm always excited thanks to CAFFINE!-HAVE YOU HAD YOUR COFFEE TODAY? I KNOW I HAVE!-) about these changes I do have to say, seems a bit out of left field! Aren't there other areas which may genuinely need more attention? I'll be the first to say when it comes to feeding my kids or drinking coffee, it's safe to say what I choose *sip* "ahh..".


Didn't know the wheel had to be reinvented when it comes to something like 'hauling' which should be pretty straight forward, but we all know that coffee is better when there are at least seventy million more flavors available at your local caffeinatin establishment!

So three cheers for excitement and here's to no lost brain cells trying to figure out why!

*salute!*