Player Features and Ideas Discussion

maybe caldari and amarr should get bigger bays to make up for the fact that they dont have special bays i don't get the point of the special bays any way you can still put ore/ice in a normal bay unless they were much larger than normal bays ofc

Clearly, there is no point writing anything.

If you really want to add some racial variety, remove the Iteron M. V so that Gallente don't have a general hauler option.

All the pro-variety people should be cool with that right? Since cross-training is no big deal.

At Indy V the Badger 2 can rig and fit for max. cargo capacity and carry 36k m3 of anything. That same pilot can then spend 19 minutes training time, two million ISK, and fly a Itty IV and carry 43k of Ice / Ore / Gas without sacrificing anything. For less than an additional day of training time he can fly that same Itty IV with something akin to ~51k (napkin math, probably wrong) of Ice / Ore / Gas.

Really... doesn't seem that bad to me? Sorry, I don't see an issue with spending less than a day to fly a certain ship. The nooblets will probably be guided into Gal Indy's, but they've been doing that for years now.

We're talking about spending less than 20 hours, but no more than 24 hours for the wrong spec'ed pilots, to cross-train into a perfectly viable ship that does exactly what they need it to do, but does nothing else. For wrongly spec'ed pilots you don't actually gain much for spending nearly a month training into the V skill... heck, if that's the goal spend half the time and fly a vastly better Orca.

The old imbalance was that Gallente had the best industrial ship. No plural. If you cared about hauling at all you trained Gallente Industrial V for the Iteron V. And nothing else. It was the best industrial in every way.

Now there are five largest cargoholds depending on what you carry. Gallente have three of them, but they only require Industrial I now. And then there are multiple other "bests" if you don't care about maximum cargo hold.

Sure, why the hell not.

Personally I'm not overly bothered by the changes even though I trained Gallente to be able to haul the most with an Iteron V. Id much rather have some distinguishing flair and difference between the different models. Basically that means one can pick and choose for the task at hand.

So more goons and large alliances come out of the woodwork against the specialized haulers. Prime example of how large alliances in this game try to derail good ideas that would benefit newer players at the slight expense of their freighters orcas and rorqs not being perfect lords of the belts in my opinion.

For those of you that are confused by their BS. They keep trying to compare them to the other haulers that have DIFFERENT Benefits. and a DIFFERENT task.

These specialized ships are meant for single tasks. They get a good bay for it because it is a single task with a small range of products. What they are whining about is that they are realizing that newer players can now haul the ore themselves and that is going to help newer players and corps sustain themselves in lowsec and nullsec.

The complaints about making these ships mostly gal are not based on any reason. Only newer players will actually see any slowdown from having to train the skill to maybe III (Which is why I hope they reverse today's changes and go back to higher base and 5 percent per level) Everyone else in the game will not be remotely slowed down training that if they have not already trained Gal Industry to V anyway.

The only "problem" I see here is goons and other alliances again trying to derail a change that finally gives newer players something against the dominance of Freighters, Orcas and Rorq.

Now MUCH LATER on and assuming POS and other aspects of the game are fixed. THEN is the time to move these ships into the ORE line and give them awesome visuals. But that is an art and gameplay reason to encourage newer players to train towards a noctis which will help keep them useful in nullsec. Not because large alliances are fearing that smaller operations will get a boost thanks to this good change to the Inty 2-4

Well, as a member of a not-insignificant-sized alliance that fights alongside goons, lemme say that you're seeing conspiracy where none exists. If you really think Goon posters are expressing themselves here because they want to keep the little guy down, you're nuts. If anything, goons likely want to see the little guy flying specialized haulers like this. Specialized haulers full of specialized hauler cargo that won't be in a GSC when the CFC's roaming gangs swing through and kill them.

If you're flying smart, they/we won't kill you - you'll be docked up or cloaked as soon as you see people coming into system, regardless of what you're flying.

So what you're seeing here? It's individuals expressing their personal opinion. I can see a lot of new players focusing on Gallente Industrials - the Bestower's hold isn't that much bigger, after all. But I can also see others saying 'I don't need to worry about the new stuff, I want to do market trading and move things other than just ore/minerals/PI, so I'm training Amarr'.

Me, I already fly multiple races of T2 hauler. I'm looking forward to these changes. One of the things I see happening is the Hoarder being given a Large Shield Extender II, DCU, 2 PDS, and then invulns and a cloak, and being used as off-grid ammo truck for DBRB's structure grinds. It doesn't need to warp cloaked - it can just travel with the fleet and set up on at a safe.

'Hey, guys, we've got enough ammo with us tonight, we can shoot EVERY STRUCTURE IN NULL!'

It'll also make C3-4 W-space sieges a lot more viable, too, for exactly the same reason. If you're willing to stay in-system, you can leave your battleships in the target system and not worry about running out of ammo/cap boosters/paste a lot longer.

That's where I see the new Hoarder shining: fleet logistics (as opposed to being a Logistics ship).

They are tools. Single task tools that do not work the same as the other haulers. For PI I take out the ship. Do the PI and grab another ship for a different task. I get a hauler spawn I grab the II version and not spend all night hauling back to station because I don't have a massive pimped out spacerich ship with max skills. Notice a trend? A newer player has to have a number of ships. But he or she now has the tools to do what they need to do. And they are doing the job with tools that are specifically designed for such.

No this wont break any alliances mining efforts at all. Its also not likely to seriously dent mineral prices. Ventures are awesome but not that awesome. What it will do is help smaller groups get established in the game. Help other alliances without strict recruitment polices get an advantage over those who do. And those alliances will have newer members that can actually do something besides fly a venture and tackle. And I say help. It wont solve all the issues that gives unbalanced advantages to large spacerich alliances. But it will help.