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[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#261 - 2013-06-26 22:39:05 UTC
Not everyone can afford an orca though, or have the time to grind to get one.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#262 - 2013-06-26 22:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
-nvm, answered-

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#263 - 2013-06-26 22:45:13 UTC
No need for a nerf, abusing mineral compression is just emergent gameplay...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#264 - 2013-06-26 23:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Not everyone can afford an orca though, or have the time to grind to get one.


You could sell 2 Plex and have enough isk for an Orca and a a Mackinaw if you didn't want to grind for it in game.

The only thing you are forced to wait on in Eve is the training time. And an Orca now takes as long as a maxed Iteron V, or the special Iterons.


For specialized bays, they should make ORE cargo ships that use the ORE Industrial skill. Give the racial ones racial flavor to make them different from each other, but leave them as general cargo ships. As others have pointed out, with these changes Gallente is still the one to train for general hauling, and now has even more reason for being the only to train being the only race that has remotely useful special bays.
Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
#265 - 2013-06-26 23:26:19 UTC
I'm sure smarter people than me will help find all the exploits/emergent gameplay.

From my perspective you just turned industrials from bland and boring to something interesting and useful. Well Done!
GooieGoober
Miranda Regional Technologies
#266 - 2013-06-26 23:26:33 UTC
With all this talk about specialized cargo holds...what about specialized cargo Modules. :)

Drop in a mid or low module that converts some cargo space over to increased specialized space. i.e. drop in an ore cargo specializer and it converts 2000 m3 generic cargo space to 10,000 m3 ore space? Or is this too difficult to modify the base ship programming?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2013-06-26 23:49:57 UTC
How about one that specializes in fuel like isotopes, stront, and liquid ozone?

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Romeo Deluxe
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#268 - 2013-06-26 23:50:27 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, here we go.
...

Looking forward to your feedback, but please don't expect version 3, I have to get on with my life at some point


Your life belongs to us. Twisted
LockOnStratus
Pensacola2022
#269 - 2013-06-27 00:04:59 UTC
Why does the Iteron 3 become the comodies ship when the Iteron 4 has a special commodity version? Also wil the Quafe edition get a ore or commodities bay?
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#270 - 2013-06-27 00:08:38 UTC
This thread has too many pages.Sad

Here's a good change to industrials - quadruple their cargo capacity across the board, eliminate all mid slots (who needs mid slots anyway?), and make it so that they can't warp to gates at zero - 10k or 15k is fine.

Also give them all a new paint job. Maybe pink, or school bus yellow, or white with red concentric circle patterns.Big smile

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#271 - 2013-06-27 00:19:07 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
*Quickly looks at the thread*

You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy!

You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you!

Now I will have no choice but to mention CCP Rise is doing to a good job. Think about it: he's drinking water in a huge jug instead of a regular glass. How twisted can one be to do that? This has to be punished. Evil


Why don't you have a signature with your CCP roles? *thought he found something to complain about*

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries
Orion Consortium
#272 - 2013-06-27 00:28:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
Overall excellent changes, just one thing, will the special edition Ity 4 get any bigger Ore hold?


The special edition ships are kind of odd.. Right now I have them set basically as Iteron Vs that are slightly better. I think they should probably stay that way since having a specialized hold seems strange for a ship that goes out for special events to a broad set of players.


Do the special edition Iteron Mark IV's get to keep the Quafe bay?
Eladaris
Indefinite.
#273 - 2013-06-27 00:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Eladaris
Honestly really like the changes! Damn fine job on making the Industrials varied, worth training in more than one race's skill, and at least we have a few fits that won't be all CE's in the lows, all the time. Also glad the PI variant can now carry 2 CC's, without needing to sacrifice it's PI bay to do so.

For the folks complaining that we don't get POS haulers, SMA haulers, refining in space haulers, or doing ME research in space haulers (that's a nifty idea), they do strike me as T2 haulers. Whether or not we see more T2 indy's introduced is very up in the air, but it'd be all sorts of grand to see new T2 variants of the new bay'ed haulers.

The only thing I really see missing is a hauler capable of moving all the T1 frigates / destroyer you gain from doing the starter missions. Although it's possible at max skills the Bestower may be capable. That's always been the one design flaw I see in the T1 haulers. You give new player's a pile of T1 frig's and 1 destroyer in the starter missions, but they're a cast-iron b!tch to move to a new location for that starter player.

Abus Finkel wrote:
I see no reason for anyone to train anything other than Gallente industrials if this goes through. Why use any other races if Gallente can do the same plus much more.

Because the non-Gall generic hauler's are ALL better than the Gall generic hauler. If you only carry the things that go into the special bays, cross-train Gall. Indy to I and call it a day. It takes 20 minutes. If you need to carry more generalized stuff you'll have a bay Itty and a Bestower.

Sofia Wolf wrote:
I really like new industrials. Only reservation is that many of them don't have sufficient PWG to fit MWD and PCD to do MWD trick. This is necessity of survival in low sec, and quite helpful in 0.0, and highsec during wardecks.

Minimal PWG that someone noobish with Engineering at lvl 4 can fit mwd+pcd is ~130, so consider upgrading PWG of all industrials that are below that threshold.

They are T1 ships, in theory they're designed to die poorly in a low-sec fight.

Sparkus Volundar wrote:
This reinforces the need for people to train the Gallente Industrial skill if those bays are worth using.

Sorry you're upset about losing 20 minutes of training time? Didn't everyone train Gall. Indy to I when they stripped the skill requirements on the Itty V?

Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Deirdre Anethoel wrote:
serious hauling will still be done in orca/freighter/JF.


The very fact that an industrial command ship is used as a hauler instead of high volume T1 or even T2 industrial ships is a big problem. I don't mind having Orca be a sort of "mobile base" that people are sometimes using it for, but it definitely shouldn't be a stepping stone between T1 industrials and freighters, especially since it has a completely separate skillset. To make a comparison, it would be as if people would be using battleships to mine more effectively than with Retrievers / Covetors.

Wait... I see what you did there! Because people did use BS's as better miners than Retrievers :)
I still have one of those fits saved.
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2013-06-27 01:02:42 UTC
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!
MUCH better!

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Marsan
#275 - 2013-06-27 01:05:59 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The bays are interesting. I was hoping for things like fitting service, or fleet hangar, or a ship maintenance bay. But maybe thats difficult or overpowered. Oh well....

One issue with bays is people who already own the ship. Like I got a pilot with a hoarder, used to haul misc stuff. Now I got to sell it and get some other ship. Good thing I never got around to rigging it!

But I can see many players saying " You just make by hauler not able to haul! What am I supposed to do with an interon II with cargo expander rigs??"

This entire idea of special bays sure is a two edged sword. But I say keep going with it.



Please what numbskull has a rigged mark II. Rigged Mark IV are not uncommon, but to be honest you should just strip the rigs repackage, resell, and buy a Mark V. Unrigged a Mark V will have about the cargo as the old Mark IV.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#276 - 2013-06-27 01:15:18 UTC
http://www.gamerchick.net/2013/06/on-haulers-wormholes-and-other-matters.html?m=1

Susan black for ccp

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Kor Kilden
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc.
#277 - 2013-06-27 02:04:06 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
*Quickly looks at the thread*

You got it wrong people, you're not supposed to be happy!

You're supposed to riot! Set things on fire with the flame wars! Start the threadnaught! Fire ze missiles! Rage! Let the anger consume you!

Now I will have no choice but to mention CCP Rise is doing to a good job. Think about it: he's drinking water in a huge jug instead of a regular glass. How twisted can one be to do that? This has to be punished. Evil


Why don't you have a signature with your CCP roles? *thought he found something to complain about*


Is CCP Rise causing his coworkers to rage at their customers by listening to the customers?

CCP Rise for immortal demigod of the year!
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#278 - 2013-06-27 02:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
If you let the mineral bay include refined ice and gas products (including stront) and then maybe let the Hoarder's ammo bay include POS fuel blocks, I do believe the changes will be essentially perfect.

Letting the Hoarder's ammo bay be fleet-accessible would be delightful, but it's an "icing on the cake" sort of thing.

Also, in the interests of future lolpvp tournaments (and certain industrial-themed roams that currently exist), I do completely support the notion of amarr getting a two-turret hauler. I nominate the Sigil for this role.
Beuf Hunter
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2013-06-27 04:40:17 UTC
The notion of an ammo bay greatly unbalances an already unfortunate workaround, and will only serve to disservice other ships further. Currently, the most common method of compression of ores in wormhole space is the creation of ammunition charges, which are then transported. I believe, you will find this to be the exclusive activity of this ship, and rather than remedy the pre-existing issue with compression ratios offered by the rorqal, you are only serving to further exacerbate the issue.

Additionally, I would recommend the ore hauling industrial be capable of hauling at least 2 mackinaw loads worth of ore at the peak skill level, to make such a skill training worthwhile. On the topic of ores and such, it would be unsurprising to find the hauler with drone capability under exclusive service of what is commonly referred to as "afk miners" .

For the industrial capable of missile usage, I would sternly suggest two launchers, as most find mixed weapon types distasteful, moreover, the idea of further weaponizing industrial ships is rather novel, half measures lead to half results. I believe if you look to the exquror's armament and defensive capabilities, remove the logistics bonuses, and slow it a bit to float on par with a proper industrial, you may find the proper balance for a combat industrial ship, which may have an ability to survive short excursions through lowsec and chew it's way through smaller gangs of bubble rats between gates.

An old adage from the military, " if no one is happy, something is wrong. If everyone is happy, something is VERY wrong."
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#280 - 2013-06-27 04:47:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, here we go.

At skill = 5, Wreathe and Bestower have the same max. velocity. Seriously?
Align time is irrelevant for "fast-tanky" industrials - no one in their right mind would fly it to lowsec. Velocity is important for them to make autopiloting significantly faster.
On contrary, "bulky" haulers are too thin to fly auto. They are to be operated manually and require faster align time to make it a bit less boring.

Once again, I suggest to switch speed bonuses between classes, i.e.
+ velocity for Wreathe,
+ agility for Bestower.

Not really a fan of specialized bays, but I can live with that. Hoarder is crap though, but who cares.

And...
NERF
THAT
ORCA!

But overall, much better iteration.