Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I predicted this would be a much harder task than CCP anticipated.

First off, while the art department has done some amazing things lately, saying that the Hoarder looks better than the Mammoth is crazy. Keep the Mammoth as the heavy hauler!

Second, after reviewing the stats presented, I think this needs to be redone from the beginning. It would be kinda cool to see what neat ideas you had, and pass them along to the CSM to see what they think and get their feed back.

As far as what changes should have been done, well.. I think some similiar tasks are in order between the races:

Each Race should have a Heavy Hauler whose only task is to move as much as it can from point A to point B. (Bestower, Mammoth, Iteron V, Badger) That's as far as you need to go with the similiarities between races. Outside of that, stretch your imaginations.. BE UNFAIR.

The Minmatar, as a former slave race, fighting for constant survival, is going to be more skilled at running blockades and circumventing police forces - so let the Wreathe become a super agile, small sig radius, fast ship with small carrying capacity and weak defenses. Throw some unfairness in the mix and give the Hoarder the ability to "hide" its cargo from cargo scanners (or display dummy cargo instead.)

The Amarr's Sigil, having been developed by a people who try and dominate others, should have a fast hauler that is heavily armed and armored, able to hold its own against cruiser class ships.. though not very agile or with a fast warping ability.

The Gallente, promoters of a free enterprise society, would have developed a whole range of ships, one trading Warp Speed for cargo space (Iteron). Another (Iteron II) copying the Amarr's Sigil as a Heavily Armed and armored transport (though not as effectively), yet another (Iteron III) trying to copy the Minmatar's smuggler ships. The Iteron IV can round out the list by sharing a capability of the Caldari, being a non-capital ship that can haul rigged ships anywhere.

The Caldari, industrial giants that they are, should have an industrial that can haul rigged ships in the Badger Mark II.

Now, let me address the point about any "Unfair" or remarks about homogenization(sp?), the fact that you are changing the skillset for all of these ships to be accessible at industrial level I really invalidates any argument that one race can/can't have capabilities of another. By dropping the skills necessary down to such a low level, it should not be a concern anymore because the training for any ship in any of those races can be easily attained.

I love the Mammoth's looks. Coincidentally, I really think the Hoarder is terrible looking.
Then again I prefer the pest to the phoon.

The Mammoth has, for a very long time, been a best-in-class hauler, providing one of the better buffers, not the worst agility, and a good storage capacity - and was available for a moderate training time. This is a really abrasive change to that legacy.

Please revisit this hoarder/mammoth discussion one more time, but at the end of the day this is a T1 hauler. I'll reprocess all of them for minerals and move on with my life. I'm looking forward to the new age of HACs on the horizon.

Quite simply we don't give a rat's ass what the art team likes. We are the PLAYERS you make the game for US.

Or have you forgotten Incarnagededon already.

If three of those ships are useless, does it matter?

The cost is time, and while there is a difference per se, the difference would be negliable. Oh, as a Gallente pilot you just need to train Gallente Industrials 1, where as a Minmatar pilot would have to train Gallente Frigate to III before going to Gallente Industrials I? the training difference would still be less than a day, plus it would give the Minmatar pilot the benefit of trying another race (which most will likely do anyways).

Appreciate the focus and agree on two major points, too many ittys and homogenization. That's what is kind of weird to me.

Getting rid of three of the ittys, yeah no value add but they really don't add much any more with the skill changes. But it really doesn't matter to me if they are left in (assuming no new abilities are added as you say).

However, on the homginzation....I disagree that there are really only two aspects. That might be mostly true but there is a lot you can do with those and the fact that null transport is really all about not getting ganked. For instance, a T2 hauler that has the ability to fit a interdiction nullifier...give it either slow as hell align time with tank possibilities are make it paper thin...both with a small cargo m3. I would cross train for that. Add the ability for one T2 industrial to fit micro jump drives. How about a bonus to ECM?

On the cargo aspect, what about holds with compression for certain types of items....ie a mineral bay with 100% m3 bonus? Gas? Ore? What about a t2 with a ship bay only?

I think you can do a lot here but my perspective is what incentive do I have to cross train to get more choices. If you are thinking from how do we get more options easier, then you probably won't solve the homogenization issue.

I'll just say that this approach is boring to me. Why does that matter? Because I'm 100mill plus sps now and like many others I know in is situation are at the point where there needs to be more variety to the game to keep me interested. Maybe that doesn't matter, but this 'we want everyone to have the ability to do the same basic function' isn't keeping with the spirit of why I've played this long. You did the same thing to scanning IMO. Specialization, at least at the T2 level, should be about specific jobs. But at the rate you are gong (bombers anyone?) I don't see any point to training other races because ill eventually have the same function as everyone else anyway.

Stealth gank nerf #17.

On the topic of the itteron 2-4, would they ever be considered for a "buy out" by ore? Slightly larger project than just switching stats, easier than brand new art. Could rationalize it by ore expanding quickly into the commercial market, and needing new assembly lines quickly so they buy the itty designs and re-purpose them.

Could have an ore/mineral hauler an ice hauler, or any other specialized role for that matter, and a generic all purpose hauler if you'd rather train ore than one of the major factions.

So the Caldari get their Ewar cruiser but the Gallente don't get specialist haulers? That sounds fair.
You've got 5 hulls there that you've stated you want to keep for historical reasons, yet you don't want to do anything interesting with them? What a wasted opportunity.
You can add a few other specialist haulers later but you won't need to because any one who actually wants to fly a hauler will spend the paltry time necessary to access the specialist ones.

I realize these are only haulers but why waste a rebalance? Do it properly the first time.