EVE General Discussion

Suicide ganking needs to remain. Don't get me wrong, I've never done it, and been a victim of it twice but it is an absolutely amazing mineral sink.

Last thing we need is less people blowing themselves up.

I've ganked in highsec many times, and never once was I concerned about "Insurance". I wouldn't care if the it got taken away altogether.
However I think a better route would be, Concord take a percentage of the insurance payout as a fine, base the percentage on the sec status of the ganked person. If he's 5.0, 100% fine, 2.0 75% etc...some type of sliding scale, with perhaps an additional reward from Concord for ganking negaive sec status players.

Ship loss through toe-to-toe PVP, not suicides, is just as incentivised by insurance as suicide ganks. So your argument fails as the removal of all insurance is not the position proposed by the OP.

And your counter-argument fails because you're not addressing the point. I never said that it had anything to do with all insurance. I said that insurance is there to incentivise ship destruction.

But sure. My assumption here is that people want to remove insurance because that way, gankers will have lowered incentives to gank. That is why I'm asking: why? Why should it be disincentivised? Or do you want to claim that it doesn't incentivise ship destruction? If so, what difference does it make? Why should it be removed?
Of course it's worse than the other high-sec pursuits. The fact that they are so ridiculously rare tells us that much. Sure, suicide ganks are easy if you ignore the costs and the risks. If you do that, though, you forfeit the “risk vs. reward” argument.

Moreover, the recycling of alts is not a reason to remove legitimate gameplay — it's a reason to improve the ability to track and stop the exploit.
You have a 100% risk on you ship. You risk not finding a suitable target. You risk finding an intelligent target (so your gank failes)… granted, that risk is very tiny because gank victims are stupid as hell, but still…. You risk angering the Randum Number God and get a T2 Suitcase out of the whole deal. Assuming you do it legally, you either risk missing the juicy targets while you grind your sec status back up, or you risk being shot down while travelling to the target. The rewards are random because the rewards are random — you have no control over what drops.
…and that's their risk, which is under their control. It has nothing to do with your risk vs. reward. If they want to, they can mitigate that risk into oblivion.
I know. That's why I'd like to see ganking rewards increased so they're more in line with the other things you can do in highsec.

By the way, you didn't answer the question: why?
Why should gankers be smacked in the face, financially?
Why should ship destruction be disincentivised?

I would argue that in a lot of cases, it is concord's mistake. Insurance should be paid out to me when concord accidentally destroys my ship

If we define "risk" as loosing your ship.

than hi-sec gankers have the riskiest job of all.

As someone who has suicide ganked before (this is an alt sorry) I can say I have proved it.

"But at least now we're getting somewhere: assuming for a second that you manage to prove all that… why? Why should it be discouraged?" Please spare me the condescension.

Other than that provide a link for disincentivised? i suggest using lmgtfy.

Much as I normally agree with nearly everything you say on just about every subject, I have to disagree with you on this subject.

Empire is supposed to be a designated "safer" space, so gankers should be smacked in the face financially in Empire space, and ship destruction should be disincentivised in Empire space. Obviously it ought to be still possible, but the disincentive should be a bit bigger. To remove insurance for gankers would kill two birds with one stone - a little bit more disincentive, and a little bit more "sim realism" for an Empire space that's a hive of commercial activity and relatively safe and policed.

There's a whole bunch of other space in the sandbox for gankers to have an easier time of it, and for the gameplay mechanics you're talking about to work themselves out comfortably.

Also, from the simulator point of view, it's just a bit too much of a gameplay concession to give player killers insurance. It's jarring. (The whole concept of insurance in a game like this where people are constantly getting their ships blown up is somewhat jarring, but insurance for gankers is in-your-face jarring.)

Weeeell…

Highsec is supposed to be an area where aggression costs. That is all it is. The hope is that this cost will cause people to shoot each other less than if the cost was zero. The fact that ganks are so rare as they are proves that overall, it works — it is disencintivised… compared to low and nullsec. You are already inherently and unavoidably smacked in the face, financially, when you attack people: you either lose your ship (and fittings, unless you have an accomplice to scoop up whatever survives), or you pay for a wardec.
…and thus we arrive at the burning question: why? Why should it be bigger?
…and by the same logic, CONCORD should be removed. Or at least have its response delayed by a factor of 60×… and be destroyable… and easily avoidable… and not actually blow people up willy-nilly. So that RL argument is a particularly bad route to take in this case.

Having done some simple calculations, you can be sitting in a cane firing arties with gyros fitted in less than 10 days. That is, from a fresh character. And to enlighten you a bit more, here's how you get around those "wasted" skillpoints:

1. Start up new account and make new character
2. Begin training towards Cane + med arties + gyros
3. Once you can fly the cane, make a new character and start training that one instead
4. Start ganking with the first character, and if you profit exceeds 400m proceed to step 5, otherwise return to step 1
5. Buy plex, start transfering isk to your main account. As long as income exceeds 400m per month, keep purchasing plex.
6. When the second character is done training, biomass the first and start using the second character, begin training charcter 3.

I have never done any suicide ganking nor have I ever been suicide ganked. But some reliable sources have told me you can easily make more than 400m in a week if you pay attention and know what you're doing.