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Dev Blog: Probe Scanning and other Goodies for Odyssey

First post First post First post
Author
Dullmeyr Prodomo
Gnartz
#281 - 2013-05-29 18:57:25 UTC
Most disappointing devblog i have read in a long time. CCP should seriously consider to postpone the implementation of this ill-conceived Probe Scanning System.
Wyrm Drake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#282 - 2013-05-29 19:10:47 UTC
Greed kills niche markets. Sad.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#283 - 2013-05-29 19:25:25 UTC
William Sedgwick Vyvorant wrote:
Ptah of Thebes wrote:
I find it hilarious that some people are complaining about Eve not being Sci-Fi and this update ruining their immersion. This is obviously because Eve already contains Newtonian physics, right? And projectile (to include Hybrids as well) weapons systems that travel up to hundreds of kilometers in an instant, barring of course missiles. Super-light speed is also scientifically possible.

In other words, you already suspend your disbelief for core aspects of the game. Please shut up about your "immersion" being the excuse for a change and give feedback based on game theory, player experience, balance, or something equally as valuable.


The thing with Sci-Fi and the suspension of disbelief is that a consistency within a universe is key. For probes auto recalling my issue would be that if my probes can instantly appear in my cargo hold when I jump a gate 100AU from where the probes were dropped why don't my probes move everywhere instantly, why is there a a transit time before they start scanning? It doesn't make sense and is needless hand holding, at the moment if you lose your probes you learn to remember to recall them, now there's going to be no consequence to someone forgetting.
Maybe CCP meant to make these changes to drones but selected probes.
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#284 - 2013-05-29 19:37:48 UTC
BraiZure Harloon wrote:
Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together.


You are supposed to make enough profit by mining to hire support fleet. After they kill all the bots, you probably will. Bear
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#285 - 2013-05-29 19:44:19 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back.

all we want:

  • user defined launch pattern(s)
  • bring back Deep Space Probes
  • remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
  • keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
  • do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
  • do not magically recall probes
  • allow the launch of one probe
  • keep Grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space


As a member of the player base I feel obligated to point out that I am very happy with these changes, and CCP should listen to ME instead of YOU.
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
#286 - 2013-05-29 19:44:47 UTC
Chribba wrote:
It's getting closer...


What?!? That Touborg is out of a job? Or?
Wyrm Drake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#287 - 2013-05-29 19:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyrm Drake
Sissy Fuzz wrote:
Chribba wrote:
It's getting closer...


What?!? That Touborg is out of a job? Or?


.. until Chribba quits Eve?
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#288 - 2013-05-29 20:03:22 UTC
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
the June 4th release needs to be pushed out at least a month, if CCP is actually going to LISTEN to the player base and roll some of this stuff back.

all we want:

  • user defined launch pattern(s)
  • bring back Deep Space Probes
  • remove the new probe mods, there is no need. restore the meaning of the current probing skills, as they are on TQ today.
  • keep your overlay in as a novelty item but do not force it upon us.
  • do not show all signatures in the system by default when entering it
  • do not magically recall probes
  • allow the launch of one probe
  • keep Grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space


As a member of the player base I feel obligated to point out that I am very happy with these changes, and CCP should listen to ME instead of YOU.



you and maybe a dozen others. Big smile but don't worry, i have no doubt that you will get all you want.
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#289 - 2013-05-29 20:06:25 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.

Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.

But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.

So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE?


Except with this change, I can jump into a WH, remain cloaked, hit the scan button, locate all the Anoms and Grav Sites and warp to each site.

There is no warning, there is no heads up, its just an instant loss. Please explain how that is fair or balanced?
Eru GoEller
State War Academy
Caldari State
#290 - 2013-05-29 20:12:28 UTC
Galileo Ohaya wrote:
Zorok wrote:
Octoven wrote:

  • Keep grav sites in game, for the safety of miners in hostile space? Hell no, why should miners in one area be safer then those not there? Why should person A be in a grav site and have marginal safety while person B in the same system in a standard belt have no safety? This is NOT balanced, im glad they are removing them from sigs to anoms.


  • It's currently balanced because ALL warp-able asteroid belts exist within K-space and you can see who is in local also, if you ever noticed, you won't find many mining barges mining the regular belts in low-sec- there's a good reason for this. At any rate, explorers who put in the time to locate grav sites using probes SHOULD be rewarded with being able to find a site that can't easily be accessible without the use of probes. I'm guessing you don't do much mining yourself. If you are concerned you won't get an easy gank, just watch some videos of advanced combat scanning and you will learn how, with practice, you can jump in on anyone but the most cautious of mining ships.


    Exactly! This proposed change kills wh mining completely. I'm guessing that is CCPs intention. There are plenty of hisec asteroid belts available, the occasional Grav site is a reward for miners who put in the time to scan them down. No longer.

    If CCP plans on getting rid of all static asteroid belts, much as they are doing with ice belts, then they should just come clean and admit it.

    Some times ago there was this talk that there was to much ABC mining going on in w-space and it should be removed.
    Guess we have the answer now, why it wasn't removed at that time.
    Zyrbalax III
    Goldcrest Enterprises
    #291 - 2013-05-29 20:12:29 UTC
    Hey CCP


    RESPOND goddammit, we are reading your silence as a very large "FU playerbase we don't give a sh!t about your opinions."


    I feel there's a monument in Jita in need of some serious (and unfriendly) atention.


    Anyone care to join me?
    Sassums
    Dark Venture Corporation
    Kitchen Sinkhole
    #292 - 2013-05-29 20:18:25 UTC
    CCP is the new SOE. (Check SWG and see where "making things easier" got them).

    Scanning and the mining changes are complete crap. There is no balance when I can jump into a WH system, scan down the anoms without launching a prob while cloaked and grab an unsuspecting miner without warning.

    Null Sec has Local Chat alerting the locals the minute someone comes into the system.

    Scanning should be challenging - that is the idea. The sites you are scanning down are worth more than typical sites.
    Blackfin Arbosa
    Blackstone Holdings
    #293 - 2013-05-29 20:20:04 UTC
    Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
    BraiZure Harloon wrote:
    Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together.


    DScan is not going anywhere.


    Cloaked ships don't show on DScan, but combat scanner probes do. Now there is no need, just use new system scan and harvest miner tears
    Sassums
    Dark Venture Corporation
    Kitchen Sinkhole
    #294 - 2013-05-29 20:29:49 UTC
    Blackfin Arbosa wrote:
    Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
    BraiZure Harloon wrote:
    Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together.


    DScan is not going anywhere.


    Cloaked ships don't show on DScan, but combat scanner probes do. Now there is no need, just use new system scan and harvest miner tears


    This is what I have been talking about - any cloaked ships can come harvest miners without the slightest warning. There is no risk vs reward there. It's just plain suicide. I can just bounce around in my stealth and pop miners in every system I enter.
    Blackfin Arbosa
    Blackstone Holdings
    #295 - 2013-05-29 21:01:26 UTC
    Kitanga wrote:
    Roime wrote:
    Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?



    yes. we have entered the realm of magic now.

    apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming.

    we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks.


    This is very disappointing. I don't like magic mixed with my science.
    Sissy Fuzz
    Sissy Fuzz Communications
    #296 - 2013-05-29 21:05:37 UTC
    "The team took part in the theme-conception work overseen by CCP Seagull earlier in the year."

    So it is a theme park? Not a sandbox. I guess most of us knew by now.

    Yes. Another dumb dumbing down of EVE. Seemingly to cater to those large numbers of people who ragequit after losing probes - or the retards who can not (be arsed to) read or do simple calculation. The false underlying notion being that new players are also not very intelligent players.

    Maximising revenue InstaSuccess is the new value proposition - gaming designed for a new generation of players who are unable to deal with obstacles of any kind? Who ragequit and go play WoT if anything is not instant and easy. Is that it? All the while Mr. ****-Yeah-We-Have-250000-People-With-Bounties-On-Them-In-EVE Touborg spots "interesting" social dynamics amongst the players pitted in his little private anthropology project that EVE has become.

    This is serious folks, EVE is going down. It is becoming more and more like podge with every 'expansion'. Because nothing is really expanding - things are just being messed up.

    On the contrary, the latitude for brains and problem solving, for true achievement by coping and making an actual effort is being rooted out bit by bit as what seems to be the perceived obstacle for a higher subscriber growth rate/retention ratio.

    EVE is getting easy and pretty. Like a Hong Kong hooker. X
    Apolune Yassavi
    Sunset Industries
    Memento Moriendo
    #297 - 2013-05-29 21:06:50 UTC
    Quote:
    As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.


    So typical of CCP. Pro-PVP and Anti Industrialist.

    We’ll this is what will probably happen. Miners will stop mining or will keep dying and eventually quit. Mineral Prices will go up resulting in ships and mods to be more expensive and then because of this PVP'ers will stop playing because of the increasing costs.

    I thought the idea was to bring mineral prices down not increase them.

    Good Job CCP
    Patrick Baboli
    Mad Science Union Local 42
    #298 - 2013-05-29 21:16:04 UTC
    Cynthia Nezmor wrote:


    As a member of the player base I feel obligated to point out that I am very happy with these changes, and CCP should listen to ME instead of YOU.

    why?, i say that the devs listen to those who have valid points and present an arguement, rather than your all is good, listen to me not anyone else.
    Logit Probit
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #299 - 2013-05-29 21:35:09 UTC
    Very disappointed in the expansion.....

    Mini-game in hacking....why not just copy EQ and have a version of Tetris have all our attention.

    Grav Sites now anamolies.....whatever buffs you gave to null sec ores....forget them, this effectively cut their throats of them, dragged them over razorblades, sauté them in rubbing alcohol, lit them on fire, put out the flames with acid, hacked them into pieces, and buried the ashes in manure. In null sec you don't mine in the belts because that little red guy cloaked up could be there...now sometimes he could have a probe launcher fit and find you anyways, but at least he had to work at it. If you really want to do this, then at least add in some way to scan down cloaky campers....your taking away DSP, why not change them into that...probes that can scan down cloaked ships....oh but make them undetectable too....cause you know....probes don't do any damage...just like afk cloaky guys. At least now to combat them the only real counter is a bubble hung at the beacon point with a lot of drones or cans around it......which has been deemed by CCP as an exploit.

    The scanning changes I have mixed feelings on....I like the option to launch all probes at once, but not the requirement. The removal of DSP I don't like, nor do I like the termination of the probe market. The auto-reclaim of probes after expired, hate it. The probes starting out at the sun as an initial scan spot....hate it.

    I really think a lot of these changes were rushed. I would rather see a well thought out expansion put out then....oh lets change everything and see how it works, then when we realize its busted and shelf the fixes for years. There are a lot of things currently in game right now that we have been screaming for CCP to fix that fall on deaf ears....are these changes going to be something else we add to the list?

    Design the changes.....Test it yourselves.....Rework it....Test it again.....Put it on the Test server.....let the players test it.....get the feedback....fix the problems.....put it back on test server.....if it works....then move it to the Main Server. Its a long process, but it works.

    Blackfin Arbosa
    Blackstone Holdings
    #300 - 2013-05-29 21:44:51 UTC
    Belshazzar Babylon wrote:
    CCP what are you doing?????? Why not just put Grav sites on the overview now. If someone can't be bothered to scan a site why should they be able to get the better ore? You are going to completely kill mining in WH's and Low Sec. How can a couple of miners in a WH with no local possibly catch a cloaky coming in that can warp right to them?

    Did nobody think about this or did CCP think miners should not have a chance?


    Its pretty evident that CCP hates miners.