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Dev Blog: Probe Scanning and other Goodies for Odyssey

First post First post First post
Author
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#101 - 2013-05-28 18:14:48 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Roime wrote:
Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?



yes. we have entered the realm of magic now.

apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming.

we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks.



but let a probe scan at 256au? hell no. that's not scientifically feasible...
Startled Staffer
Enso Corp
#102 - 2013-05-28 18:19:48 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
Logix42 wrote:
Scan probes recalling on jump / dock is ridiculous.

1) You are not keeping true to the core of EVE Online. Actions have consequences If someone leaves probes behind and gets stuck in a wormhole, or has to fly 10 jumps to buy more probes, that is good. Auto-recalling is bad hand holding and fundamentally flawed. Just don't.

2) There are several reasons more experienced pilots may want to leave probes out when they jump. They can act as a decoy to make people think someone is in system. Or you can jump back in and scan again in the exact same position. And I'm sure there are more that I don't regularly use/know about.



This^

Why can't drones be auto-recalled when I jump out of system? Why can't they auto-recall when someone is shooting at them? Why do I have to buy ammo for my guns in the first place?? They should come preloaded with infinite ammo!

The fact that no matter what I do I can't loose any probes is utterly ridiculous.

Let me expand, you are loosing the sense of danger you had in wormholes.The sense of venturing into the unknown, a place where you don't know if you are going to be able to get out (even if no one is there). Now WH space is safe. You can't get stuck.
This is what is lost with this mechanic change.

You made an expedition into the amazonian rainforest look like a trip to Disneyland...



Quoted for Truth
Startled Staffer
Enso Corp
#103 - 2013-05-28 18:21:56 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
BraiZure Harloon wrote:
Dose this mean that a solo wormhole miner in a grav has no chance? Say a legion or loki enters the hole and hits up his odessy and wow there is a grav and warps to a soon to be dead retriver. The Miner doesn't even have a chance to see probes on D-Scan and bug out to the pos. Well I thought they were trying to encourage miners to take risks not comit suicide or quit mining all together.


DScan is not going anywhere.




Mining in a Wormhole now:

Watch out for dem probes!

Mining in a wormhole with Odyssey:

You're never going to know what hits you until it bump-decloaks right into you.

Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining?

I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard.

Collapsing statics is a long, dangerous process for a solo miner. Its not really feasible in this case. The best a solo W Space miner can do is mined aligned, at speed, and when someone pops up next to you hope you can click warp faster than they can click lock.



And you can, at best, only do that 50% of the time. If you mine aligned and at speed, then you will constantly be leaving mining range, and be forced to backtrack your entire path just so you can turn around and make another run at full speed. Then repeat....
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#104 - 2013-05-28 18:28:43 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Roime wrote:
Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?



yes. we have entered the realm of magic now.

apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming.

we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks.


Well there goes another aspect of probes and dscan intel.

How do they return to the formation after relaunch, same magic?



.

Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#105 - 2013-05-28 18:32:04 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Roime wrote:
Does the insta-recall mean that probes no longer warp back to your ship? Just appear in the cargo bay?



yes. we have entered the realm of magic now.

apparently middle earth was found in some remote wormhole, and Gandalf was very willing to share some of his wizardry with the rest of the universe. look for more magical behavior in future expansions, its coming.

we have crossed from sci-fi to fantasy, folks.
This change...hit me...right in the immersion.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Lorna Sicling
Cosmic Monsters
Escape Velocity.
#106 - 2013-05-28 18:37:18 UTC
Quote:
As part of the work Team Five-0 is doing, Ore sites (aka Gravimetric sites) are being made Cosmic Anomalies instead of Cosmic Signatures, meaning you no longer need probes to find them.


So what you're saying is that to gank a miner in a null sec system when a Corp / Alliance has spent hundreds of millions of ISK upgrading the industry level to get the grav sites, you don't need probes anymore.

Bizzarely It's going to be safer to mine in the belts as at least the ganker will have to actually think and use their directional scanner - which is an art many have probably not even learnt since they instead had to practice and perfect the quick use of probes to locate their prey. Now they jump and click on the "warp to" button for the grav site.

You should have just left it at the also dumbed down mechanic of click to instantly launch all probes in a good scanning formation. Before, when a cloaky ship wanted to launch probes they had to stay uncloaked for a number of seconds while they launched probes, which was often enough time for the defender to get intel on the attacker and then decide how / if to reship and respond. You've even taken that away from the defender.

Way to dumb down Eve.

This is a seriously anti-industrialist, pro-PvP expansion. I'm not against pro-PvP, but New Eden needs balance, and I'm afraid this isn't it.

Industrialist - currently renting in null sec.

Writer of the blog "A Scientist's Life in Eve" - proud member of the Eve Blog Pack

Vakasho Umi Kenshar
Doomheim
#107 - 2013-05-28 18:37:40 UTC
Oh, almost forgot to tell people who haven't tried the scanning changes on Sisi yet:
As a few have already mentioned in this thread, astrometric skills have been altered and yield less effect, but there are now modules to compensate, or even give better results.

What is not mentioned, is that those are only med slots modules, like the analyzers you'll probably have to use if you want to run profession sites. So, now, you'll have to choose a ship with enough meds too if you want to remain competitive.
Azia Burgi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-05-28 18:38:39 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Perhaps CCP might remove BPOs for probes and just sell them through the FW LP stores. There's no market for them anyway.

There isn't a market for them because they never expire. If you make them expire people will need to buy them and you have suddenly created a market.

Never-ending probes with magic teleport abilities are pointless. You might as well do away with the whole probe system and merge the functionality with the d-scan.

Azia
Azia Burgi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-05-28 18:42:41 UTC
Vakasho Umi Kenshar wrote:
Oh, almost forgot to tell people who haven't tried the scanning changes on Sisi yet:
As a few have already mentioned in this thread, astrometric skills have been altered and yield less effect, but there are now modules to compensate, or even give better results.

What is not mentioned, is that those are only med slots modules, like the analyzers you'll probably have to use if you want to run profession sites. So, now, you'll have to choose a ship with enough meds too if you want to remain competitive.

This favours the Tengu yet again. I am forever locating exploration sites that have just been completed by a T3.

Azia
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2013-05-28 18:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Btw. the mechanics changes done have nothing to do with accessablility. Those are just purely to dumb the game down in order to attract the masses... it's a shareholder company after all.
Figuring out a good probe formation? Nvm the game does that for you now. Thus dumbing down. Accessability would have been achieved by having a class for dummies (I very much needed it back in the days) in-game (Hail the Wiki - NOT). Something which will turn away many of the people from the start, when they have to leave the game in order to be taught how the mechanic works.
Is that solved now at least?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

.

Alundil
Rolled Out
#111 - 2013-05-28 18:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
As a player who has spent the majority of my EVE time in w-space I have this to say:

Likes:
* Exploration changes (not solely related to w-space) - enhancements
* LOVE faction tower and mod BPCs becoming available once again through exploration
* 3D Overlay of scanning results
* Ability to drop probes all at once and the formation "possibilities" (I say possibilities as I hope that the the mentioned iterations on this happen and soon)
* Graphical enhancement to the scanning window (fluff perhaps - but a nice update)
* Personal Hangar Arrays (hopefully managing these is not a CF like the rest of the POS management functions
* Defaulting the probe movement to all probes instead of single probe
* Mods that improve scanning attributes

Dislikes:
* Auto-recall of probes - this is bad for many reasons and all reasons.
* 8 probes launched instead of 7 - why?
* Can't launch single probe (or fewer than 8).....WHY?
* Removal of DSP - these offered a great deal of usefulness in terms of narrowing signatures (miiiight be mitigated by the 3D overlay but no idea yet
* Probes should show on Solar System map at the location they are dropped at...PERIOD.
* Grav (ORE) Sites becoming anomalies instead of signatures......terrible terrible idea - this will further de-incentivize miners from risking anything other than a throw-away hull in w-space Grav (ORE) sites. Seeing the sites on the 3D overlay is fine but removing the need to probe any of these sites down is too far in the wrong direction.


As a follow-on to the last point: removal of belts (ice/ore) to sigs that would have to be scanned down was hailed as a bold move in terms of, both, further immersion to a profession sadly lacking as well as a strike against mining bots as they would no longer be able to simple warp to a spot and activate F*. With this change, you've removed the potential burden (having to scan down new mining sites) that botters might have faced and simply made them have to look for scanning results as opposed to celestial markers on the overview. Not good. Not good at all.

Hopefully there's still time to address some of these prior to the launch. If not, then the iterations on these items needs to be firmly committed to otherwise we'll see a net loss in the exploration/scanning professions as it relates to combat scanning and cloaky/scanner tactical gameplay.

I'm right behind you

l0rd carlos
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#112 - 2013-05-28 18:53:06 UTC
Logix42 wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
Can't you collapse the statics and then scan for new sigs while mining?

I'm not a wh dude, but that is what i have heard.

As soon as you close statics new ones open.

Don't warp to it.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

darius mclever
#113 - 2013-05-28 18:56:41 UTC
capital rigs? did i miss a dev blog for those?
Merouk Baas
#114 - 2013-05-28 18:58:32 UTC
So you're going from:

Contents of container:
5 T1 missiles and 7 Burned Circuit salvage.
Sorry better luck next time.

To:

Contents of containers you have managed to click on:
T1 missile, T1 missile, 2 T1 missile, T1 missile, 4 salvage, 2 salvage, 1 salvage.
6 containers you didn't catch, that's where your 80 million ISK loot probably went, sorry.

And you think, from a psychology point of view, that we will like the second option more than the first, as far as reward systems go?

That's like playing slots at a casino, only instead of the machine in front of you being YOURS, a casino employee picks up a rather large jar of something from it before letting you look at the coin hopper to see if you got anything.
Khoharis Asanari
Praetorian Guard of Honour
#115 - 2013-05-28 19:02:18 UTC
What's exactly the point of probes when they can't be lost at all? Either remove them and roll their functionality into the probe launchers or rethink that magical teleportation thing.
Caldari Citizen 20120308
Doomheim
#116 - 2013-05-28 19:07:33 UTC

" The main reason for this change is that the Radar/Ladar/etc. terminology is already in use elsewhere in the game and having the same term for two different things can only lead to confusion.
We’re also changing the name of the hacking and archaeology modules:
- Codebreaker becomes Data Analyzer
- Analyzer becomes Relic Analyzer "

Thanks for bringing some common sense to the changes in the new expansion.


Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#117 - 2013-05-28 19:10:47 UTC
First... Oh wait :)

While I am happy about the Overlay and Scanning changes in general there are some details left to sort out after the Expansion hits..

I will try to work with CCP to resolve all possible issues connected to above mentioned features.

If you any of you feel that changes are bad in some way please hit me up with eve mail with reasons and how would you like this or that mechanic to be implemented and I will make sure the information is available to CCP in constructive manner.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me

Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2013-05-28 19:16:26 UTC
Hey Chitsa,

thanks for showing up. Are you aware of the first few pages of the testserver feedback thread? That is a very good point to start. Basicly all what is being said here, has already been during the production phase. But without all the anger management issues and in a more constructive way, because people still had hopes.

.

PartyVaN
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2013-05-28 19:21:25 UTC
If we're changing probing, can we get some different frigate skill level bonuses on the Cov-Ops ships (Buzzard/Helios/Anathema/Cheetah)? They currently all have weapon bonuses, which I'd imagine are rarely used on these ships.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#120 - 2013-05-28 19:34:09 UTC
PartyVaN wrote:
If we're changing probing, can we get some different frigate skill level bonuses on the Cov-Ops ships (Buzzard/Helios/Anathema/Cheetah)? They currently all have weapon bonuses, which I'd imagine are rarely used on these ships.


The Battle Helios pilots aren't going to like you saying such nasty things about their little baby.