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I think a lot of people would agree that if the spewing mechanic stays then the cans should move much much slower...

I just ran a Sansha Data site in lowsec after the update.
Scanning for content, it was roughly worth 6 M, I'd say.

I managed to open all 3 containers, sometimes on second attempt only, using a Data analyzer II. The minigame was challenging on the Mainframe, but overall I'd say it was good.

The number of spewed cans has been reduced to 12, which makes things much more manageable. It's easier now to hover over the icons with the mouse and pick up what is of interest. The lifetime of the cans has been reduced to prevent collecting all of them of course, and I managed to grab 7-8 out of 12 each time with a nano Gnosis. I apparently missed only one of the cans I was interested in.

I'll run a few more sites when I get the time to, but as a first impression I'd say the system got closer to a sweet spot. At least, it didn't feel like a massive barrier to me this time.

I'm still not a fan of clicking icons in space, it has its own issues: incompatibility with the radial menu (when set on instant, how I like it); lack of available screen space because of all the windows already opened (local, overview, d-scan...) which forces to zoom out and thus makes the icons really tiny. I'm running Eve on a desktop, so I can use a mouse at least...

Overall I have the feeling it wouldn't turn me off mini-profession sites now, it was a much more satisfying experience this time (even if the site was crappy, but that's not uncommon in exploration.)

Again, that was only one site, so I'll have to run more and see if the experience is the same.

They're good, at least the ones I've found.

Issues I have are spotting the container icons in some sites, against the sky box and overlapping objects getting in the way.

Could we have sites with just the data or relic objects? It would explain why they were hidden until you've found them, It's weird warping to a site and finding derelict Caldari stations or objects the size of carriers and wondering how everyone missed it until you showed up. I find this especially true for the relic sites where you stumble upon an ancient Terran ship (as shown in the origins trailer) next to 'modern' New Eden assets, shouldn't it have been picked clean if someone got here first?

Or maybe a radius around the hackable object, say 25km, where other assets aren't spawned?

But there's something missing, something sleek, nimble and dedicated to exploration...The Sanctuary

I just gave the new mechanics a try. The hacking minigame seems absolutely void of strategy. It simply isn't interesting or compelling to do. Maybe there should be some kind of visibility of adjacent nodes so you can search for the core in a way that doesn't involve just checking every single node until you find it. Also, the gameplay is the same between data and relics, so why are there both data and relics? (I'm not a big fan of WiS, but if archaeology involved walking in ruins

The first site spawned a frigate at some point. I probably failed the minigame and immediately re-attempted it without noticing the frigate (the type wasn't added to my overview yet). After scooping some loot I noticed I was into armor so I engaged my MWD and tried to get range to break the frigates targeting so I could cloak. The frigate was able to keep me targeted until I left grid. When I warped back onto grid and began to approach the frigate, the frigate and all 4 cans (only one of which I had hacked) exploded and the site disappeared in front of my eyes. That seemed strange. Total loot gained from this first site was on the order of 4k isk.

The second site I did I faired a bit better, being more ready for the loot pinata and scooping around 5 cans. The last can appeared to be tractoring closer to my ship when it disappeared - I felt I had caught it but it expired anyway. I also killed two frigates, for 12k bounty each. Loot was again poor with the exception of a inventing thingy worth 12.5M. Overall the loot simply wasn't worth the time, though I imagine that the random big jackpots might make it even out in the long term. In the short term, though, the crap loot isn't enough to engage me to overlook the crap gameplay.

The loot pinata is such a terrible idea. I understand the goal of making exploration a multiplayer activity, but as many people have mentioned the loot pinata isn't a good way of doing that: it isn't interesting sitting and waiting for the hacker to finish the minigame (though admittedly with the current state of the minigame, the loot vacuumers aren't missing much), the twitchiness trying to click on small moving icons in limited time doesn't seem to mesh with the rest of EVE online gameplay, there doesn't seem to be much feedback regarding catching the dispersing cans (it should be clear when a can is successfully being tractored and when it is okay to start going after the next can), and finally even if the loot is balanced around not being able to get all the cans it feels like you're missing out moreso than if the extra cans just never spawned.

Why not make the minigame a multiplayer activity which releases extra cans if multiple players are able to do multiple hacks simultaneously? Then you could ditch the terrible loot pinata idea as well as have a more interesting cooperative minigame that actually involves input from all players involved instead of having one guy play the minigame while the other guys wait.

Run a few Relic sites in Low today, but every time i tried to analyze them got "You cannot activate Relic Analyzer on XXX". After a few tries i can only assume my low skill is what stops me. But if that's the case, i think the message should be changed to something more informative.

I'm going to go against the grain and say I like the spew mechanic. Yeah, 1 guy working alone won't catch everything. But if that 1 guy drags 2 or 3 newbies in fast frigates along for the ride, they will easily catch everything. Newbies work cheap, they don't demand an equal share, especially if while you haul them around to talk and teach them stuff you know about EVE. Toss 'em a couple million ISK and they think you are Santa Claus. The click spew is one of the few mechanics where bringing along another player, even an inexperienced player, could be better than multi-boxing. Anything that encourages cooperation over going solo is a good thing.


Idea: Have you considered making the hacking mini-game an actual game in the Captain's Quarters? It's a fun little mini-game, so people might enjoy playing around with it even if they can't win anything. It would also let people practice a little in a safe environment, where they don't have to worry about getting ganked while they figure out how the mini-game works.

You may also want to talk to the guys on your website team and get them to change the explorer page.

EVE Online - Explorer

I'm not sure new players will find the new exploration a solo activity or that a Tengu is the best ship now.

While I do like (most of) the changes you've made, it still doesn't feel like exploration, more like 'Advanced Salvage.' I'd like true exploration to not focus on isk/hour numbers or competition but more on discovery, the unknown and the feel of history in New Eden.

I'd like to sometimes scan down an infrequent and difficult site, warp there and find something like a rarely seen art asset with a (even lesser seen) Jove ship next to it, as I move toward them a dialogue from the Jove says 'You are not ready for these secrets yet' and warps away.

Or flying my tiny frigate alongside a titanic ruin and having some kind of search/spot light sweep the hull studying the structure and my character's observations and computer data being used to create invention cores or bpc's and not just finding random items. Maybe even have a log that takes the progress of several sites and you build up data and knowledge from each until you can use it to create an item for research and invention.

My point is it's still not exploration and for an expansion named 'Odyssey' that's bad. I hope it won't be the same length of time between this and your next pass at exploration as it was between 'Apocrypha' and 'Odyssey'.

You're not really suggesting that as a viable tactic I hope? Sitting around for 15 minutes watching damage notifications while that solo drone slowly chews through a cruiser sounds like all kinds of fun.

Better hope there are no elite cruisers in those sites.

Seriously, trying to take down anything other than a drone with a cov ops' anemic DPS would be a painful experience.

I think this is better done as a live event of some sort, or on going story line events. The mechanic will become tired after the first time you saw it, then it gets put on something along the lines of eve-survival. But it doesn't have a tangible reward, so people will start seeing it as a pointless activity and shun it.

If it is done as an event, it'll receive more attention and progress continuously, it's much better than putting it in as a game mechanic and forget about it, like the epic arcs and COSMOS.

I wasn't suggesting they all be the same encounter, the one I wrote was off the top of my head, the potential exists for thousands of individual encounters and scenarios. They could even be multi-layered or branching, with one site leading to another in a story developing lore and mystery (and if you must a big reward at the end).

Live events require planning and coordination that might not appeal to a solo player or explorer, it also requires multiple players being present to justify, CCP isn't going to stage events for a single capsuleer on the off chance they notice and post about it. Look at the 'Awakened Infomorph', do you really think every sighting has been posted or even noticed and that the community, at large, is even aware it exists. Just yesterday there were people in the Live Events channel saying how disappointed they were with the Mininela Erinen testimony event or that they wanted to take part and missed it. Hours of waiting and chatting to see two carriers dock, undock and warp away (I missed the actual event so my description might not do it justice). Not to mention if you have an exploration live event with a large group of players it stops being about exploration and discovering the unknown because there are twenty or so other people there.

If players find the sites tired or repetitive then it's fine if they use third-party websites and apps to avoid them, they're in it for the isk, the pay off and the numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if the types and potential payout for the new exploration content isn't mapped, tagged and posted on a website within hours of release. That doesn't mean that everyone has looked it up and will use it to avoid content. 'Project Atlas' was an amazing piece of work and community ingenuity but I don't check it every time I go into a wormhole as it removes that element of the unknown and adventure (they've even named unknown space as 'Anoikis' sort of defeats the point).

Exploration isn't always finding Atlantis and selling the resulting treasure to the British Museum, you are going to find uninhabited islands, shipwrecks and wonders like the Galapagos or Barrier Reef along the way and they can be just as rewarding to some people. It's discovery, mystery, adventure and knowledge, it's understanding the universe, not how much something is worth on the market.

Sorry, went on a rant there... cough, anyway, I don't think live events would work.