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Try our new hacking/archaeology sites!

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2013-05-23 16:12:54 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/icGvhE9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PPepUjl.jpg

I don't know about you but I find the cans rather difficult to see in this particular site against that enormous glaring ball of... whatever the hell that is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#182 - 2013-05-23 16:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Manssell
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Morning update post!

….One of the things we’ve been trying to do is make exploration an actual profession with its own ships, modules etc. Removing the NPCs were a part of that, but re-adding them as a failure mechanic doesn’t really fit. We’re going to take the “hacking failed” penalty NPC waves out and instead put a dynamic counter for cans in. So for example, a successful hack scatters 12 loot containers, but if you fail the first attempt and you’re successful on the 2nd, it scatters 14 containers. We feel
this make the profession more coherent.



While I feel that within the current design this will be a big improvement, it does beg the question of what does this mean when the "new" supposedly fun gameplay mechanic you are adding into this profession, slightly magnified is in fact the punishment for failure mechanic also?
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#183 - 2013-05-23 16:17:43 UTC
Manssell wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Morning update post!

….One of the things we’ve been trying to do is make exploration an actual profession with its own ships, modules etc. Removing the NPCs were a part of that, but re-adding them as a failure mechanic doesn’t really fit. We’re going to take the “hacking failed” penalty NPC waves out and instead put a dynamic counter for cans in. So for example, a successful hack scatters 12 loot containers, but if you fail the first attempt and you’re successful on the 2nd, it scatters 14 containers. We feel
this make the profession more coherent.



While I feel that within the current design this will be a big improvement, it does beg the question of what does this mean when the "new" supposedly fun gameplay mechanic you are adding into this profession, slightly magnified, is in fact the punishment for failure mechanic also?


I don't really mind punishing failure, it's more about what tools you have to do what. When you run missions, you have a combat ship. When you mine, you have a miner. When you do exploration, you should have a fitting ship. Exploration ships shouldn't have the tools combat ships have, but instead have benefits to that profession (like the bonuses to the ships). That doesn't mean there can't be failure mechanic, it just can't be based on something we actively discourage you to carry tools for (combat for example).
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2013-05-23 16:18:23 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Sisi about to be taken down for the changes mentioned here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3075661#post3075661


Excellent, I will try again after the patch.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#185 - 2013-05-23 16:25:57 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
This would let you fit your module prior to hacking which adds a whole bunch of decision making depth to the hacking itself. This is the first thing I want to put in post-release as not only does it make things much more interesting, it adds in a new way for hacking to generate income and the current design goes against our no closed systems design principle.
In all honesty, this is the stuff that should be in the first release. Not something added on afterwards. Because we are already all too familiar with CCP's notion of "Soon"(tm). Without having some form of decision-making involved (eg. what utilites to slot ahead of time), it is just random chance for success. And that quite frankly, sucks ass. If I want random chance, I'll just flip a coin. Goes alot faster, and is about as rewarding given last night's loot tables.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#186 - 2013-05-23 16:39:19 UTC
It looks like there's still a few issues with the 0.0 container positioning/clouds, we're working on it.
Wenthrial Solamar
Brand Newbros
#187 - 2013-05-23 16:41:30 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:

< Good Stuff>

I don't really mind punishing failure, it's more about what tools you have to do what. When you run missions, you have a combat ship. When you mine, you have a miner. When you do exploration, you should have a fitting ship. Exploration ships shouldn't have the tools combat ships have, but instead have benefits to that profession (like the bonuses to the ships). That doesn't mean there can't be failure mechanic, it just can't be based on something we actively discourage you to carry tools for (combat for example).


This is a sound design principal, And something that I think will improve EvE if applied well.

Keeping the focus on using the Loot explosion as the feedback side of good/poor hacking is the right direction, using it as a way to encourage grouping is not.

The current twitch design of can retervial is no good, the looting mechanic needs to be effected by an In-game skill more strongly than it is effected by the spec's of the system I'm looting on.
A High skill toon on a crappy old laptop should still be better than low skill toon on a hot-rod gaming system.

Perhaps limiting the number of cans you can tractor to 1.5x hacking skill , then make the cans hang around for a longer time, maybe 2/3 the current explosion velocity, and blow the brackets up to Huge size, like scanner-overlay size.
Should still discourage multi-boxing, and reward grouping when it happens, and will reflect time spent training skills, all while reducing mad dash clicking.
Wasilah
Little Red X
#188 - 2013-05-23 16:46:35 UTC
hopefully the market will be back up as well, just did a central angel survey site with a friend. I'm in a tengu with just an ordinary site running fit (read t2 stuff) but with a t1 codebreaker/analyzer.

for hacking i'm at 90/30(i think the second number is). I'm hoping to toss a couple rigs to help the number out a bit more. Blew up one container from failing 3 times and failed another twice before finishing it.

Just a couple things i noticed/it seemed like:

1) the cans that poped out seemed to always be on the far side from where i was when i successfully hacked the can. maybe it was just chance as i only got through 2 cans before downtime this morning. will try it again but not sure if this was a planned thing. It also might have been because all the cans were stacked (was a known issue for null sites)?

2) i would much rather use a smaller but quicker ship as they would be MUCH better at getting to the cans before they disappear. as of now i get ~2-4 cans while my friend in a gnosis was able to pick up more than I was simply because he could change direction and get to the cans faster than the tengu could.


I was a bit skeptical when i first heard about this whole set-up but the hacking mini-game was actually pretty interesting although i'm still unclear on what else i could put on my ship to help hack other than the hacking module and the rigs? other than that something should be done about the speed of the cans. if i had a friend in something like a crane or bustard there's no way they'd get more than 1-2 cans and with the interface parts being part of the loot table for the cans i will defiantly have some sort of transport ship out there with me.

if i could suggest anything it would be something like a modifier to a transport ship that allows it to target and tractor the spew cans. you still can only get a couple because of the target time + tractor time but at best you can tractor a couple of them while sitting directly in the path of a few more so it still matches a small, quick ship that is limited in what it can grab from cargo-hold size.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#189 - 2013-05-23 16:53:54 UTC
The new launcher update is taking for ever.What?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#190 - 2013-05-23 16:59:33 UTC
Looking forward to getting home to tryout the latest build!

CCP Soundwave wrote:
  • One of the things we’ve been trying to do is make exploration an actual profession with its own ships, modules etc. Removing the NPCs were a part of that, but re-adding them as a failure mechanic doesn’t really fit. We’re going to take the “hacking failed” penalty NPC waves out and instead put a dynamic counter for cans in. So for example, a successful hack scatters 12 loot containers, but if you fail the first attempt and you’re successful on the 2nd, it scatters 14 containers. We feel
    • this make the profession more coherent.


    Thank you! This sounds like a completely reasonable penalty for a failed hacking attempt, rewarding those who get it right the first time, while providing the opportunity for more ship/fitting options.

    CCP Soundwave wrote:
  • We’re looking into the scatter container brackets. Anything from increasing size, changing their icons depending on loot category etc is on the board, to make them easier to interact with.
    • The biggest issue I had with the containers was the small size of the brackets/object. Finding them in space was difficult and accurately clicking on them (with a moving ship/camera) was frustrating. Increasing the size of the brackets to something on-par with a ship would greatly help. Also, having the color show-up as a filled-in square (similar to the bracket-fill colors on ships do) would help differentiate the scatter containers from the background/stars.

    Having different icons based on loot category would be nice, but having the names on hover gives a hint... without being too oversimplified.

    Ideally I'd like the scatter containers to show-up in the overview. With that I can see distances (without having to try and hover my mouse over a small moving can) when trying to approach them. I would be able to see/sort the can description (and loot types) to quickly single-out what can I might want to go after (potentially at the expense of missing other easier/closer/grouped cans).

    Increasing the depth of the exploration profession
    Ahnn
    Space Zombiez
    #191 - 2013-05-23 17:03:24 UTC
    CCP Soundwave wrote:
    Salpun wrote:
    CCP Soundwave wrote:
    Sisi is being updated right now btw.

    Did the remirror get deployed today?


    Update today, remirror tomorrow!


    That was posted yesterday....

    So was the remirror postponed? ETA?
    Salpun
    Global Telstar Federation Offices
    Masters of Flying Objects
    #192 - 2013-05-23 17:07:34 UTC
    Ahnn wrote:
    CCP Soundwave wrote:
    Salpun wrote:
    CCP Soundwave wrote:
    Sisi is being updated right now btw.

    Did the remirror get deployed today?


    Update today, remirror tomorrow!


    That was posted yesterday....

    So was the remirror postponed? ETA?

    delayed
    no ETA

    If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

    See you around the universe.
    Johan Toralen
    IIIJIIIITIIII
    #193 - 2013-05-23 17:12:59 UTC
    Salpun wrote:
    The new launcher update is taking for ever.What?


    Dito. In fact it's stuck without doing anything.
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #194 - 2013-05-23 17:27:37 UTC
    So, clouds didn't change, can amount didn't change, and placement of the containers didn't change.
    Did you actually change anything with this update?

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #195 - 2013-05-23 17:32:52 UTC
    Oh, and rats are still spawning on failure.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    Wasilah
    Little Red X
    #196 - 2013-05-23 17:44:38 UTC
    just doing a Ruined Angel Monument site in -0.3 space and all the containers are still stacked ontop of each other. now there is a cloud around them though that is the epicenter of lag
    Noonxo
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #197 - 2013-05-23 17:45:17 UTC
    James Amril-Kesh wrote:
    So, clouds didn't change, can amount didn't change, and placement of the containers didn't change.
    Did you actually change anything with this update?


    Wow so much hate...
    You know you can log off and go back to ship spinning on TQ right? It's obviously a bug and not intented.
    iskflakes
    #198 - 2013-05-23 17:46:47 UTC
    CCP Tallest wrote:
    No changes are being made to NPCs in wormholes or COSMOS or other hacking/archaeology sites.


    CCP Soundwave wrote:

    1. Sleeper sites will not have their NPCs removed.


    Good! Don't nerf my capital escalations any more than Fozzie is already doing (dreadnought tracking nerf). I really enjoy the teamwork they require.

    -
    Wasilah
    Little Red X
    #199 - 2013-05-23 17:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Wasilah
    they did change the hacking minigame. seems the info is always in the bottom right corner now. along with they added in some new things and changed the values you get for your hacking thing. pre patch i was 90/30ish now i'm 80/20 and getting my a@@ handed to me lol

    edit: i will note that i switched my rigs to a memtic algorithm bank and a emission scope sharpener both t1

    editx2: any chance we could get some kind of stat on the fitting window to tell us where we are at for the hacking/analyzing stats? atm i'm just trying things out and jumping to a site to see what the values are then failing and going back to try something else.
    Saheed Cha'chris'ra
    Krautz WH Exploration and Production
    #200 - 2013-05-23 18:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Saheed Cha'chris'ra
    Feedback to the new uploaded build:

    I visited an Regional Serpentis Data Processing Center in Lowsec (0.3).

    • Containers are still bugged (as one DEV mentioned before). Filed a bug-report, the spew containers in my data site were all at the same position and INSIDE an asteroid structure, almost unable to approach. The moving circling parts of the hacking-tower-things were moving through the asteroid itself.
    • After a failed Hacking Attempt i was attacked by one Serpentis Frigate. But Soundwave mentioned earlier today that this wouldn't happen anymore.
    • Loot was garbage (mainly because the loot all floated away on the upper site of the asteroid, while i parked my ship on the lower side. flying around the asteroid took too long to get in range for the loot. :'(


    Thx for fixing this. o7

    PS: I saw multiple Container-types this time. "Equipment" "Material" "Data" "Scrap(not sure on this one)"
    Which one is giving the best loot? What do i have to look for?