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Honestly in 0.0 they should just leave the COs as they are but attach them to the sov mechanics some how. Because as it stands most corps/alliances are just going to look at all the planets they'd have to screw with and say forget it. They aren't going to pay out the ass for these things since they're going to be so damn rare it isn't funny. CO's are going to be rare as hell, expensive and this whole mess is going to kill production of anything over tier 1 in null. Unless there's going to be some magical new way to get basic materials down to a planet.

Supercaps die in low sec more often than you'd expect. Get news about a super cap being tackled, pirates and FW folks will come from tens of jumps away just for a chance to get on the killmail - especially pertinent now that implants are to be included in the gory details.



Chribba opened up an outpost out of philanthropic altruism. Look what happened when that got attacked.

There is plenty of scope in this game for griefers to set up PCOs purely for the purpose of baiting super capital fleets. If you ask nicely, I'm sure they'll let you use their facility since you'll be funding their PvP.

The coming experiment will show that planetary or orbital defences are an absolute necessity: even if such a defence is a shield generator on the surface which requires either orbital bombardment or a DUST invasion to shut down. The sad truth of the matter is that any sufficiently determined null sec alliance will be able to wipe out all low sec customs offices as a matter of routine. Unless the purpose of PI is to hand income to null sec on a silver platter, balance requires some means of preventing capital fleets taking away your CO like a thief in the night. A reinforcement timer is not the answer.

CCP:

Reading the blog and various comments here, I simply cannot see that this plan will work in low sec at all, regardless of any settings that can be arranged for blues, reds or if the POCO can be taken over rather than destroyed.

The majority of the community simply has no use for low sec other than PI. Thus it is simply not worth their while to have a defensive fleet available or even within reasonable range. This is a gift from the heavens for griefers.

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Best Case Scenario:

The POCO can be taken over and not destroyed, taxes are capped at (hypothetically) 20%, POCO cannot be completely barred from other players, *and* the player has a lot of isk to burn.

PI industrialist realises he has no hope of keeping the POCO however is determined to use lowsec for PI, so simply drops the 200-400m ISK module on each of his lowsec planets. Local pirates notice/scan down POCO within the day and have it reinforced and then taken over. Pirate group sets tax to max of 20% for all non blues.
Industrialist can now use POCO at risk of being camped in.

** TL-DR - player has paid 3B+ for modules he was inevitably going to lose, and is now paying 20% tax for the privelege of using them.

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Just how does this make any economic sense whatsoever? It would make far more sense to simply pile up 3-4B and purchase a few years worth of solid commodities and say screw it, i'm only likely to play for another year so this will do it.

The end result will most likely be simply that lowsec becomes even less populated than at present - and that is some feat.

And yes, i'm going to roll out the 'likely' subscriptions lost. This could be the last straw for some who are borderline.

Basically a CCP initiated 'POSageddon'.


Problem: Lowsec isn't populated enough

CCP Solution: Make it more difficult to use.



Edit: The theory of this plan is really good, in the real world it would be great. Unfortunately it simply doesn't take into account player nature in New Eden in the least.

So in essence, CONCORD will be raising taxes on the working poor?!

Yes it does, it's our structure. If CONCORD (CCP) does not want us naming these structures then they need to put up their own structures instead.

Not sure if trolling....or just stupid....

I saw a few people asking when this would come into effect, but if there was an answer, I have missed it.

So, when will it come into effect?

If it already got raised i'm sry for asking again. Have read the dev post of the first 20 pages and then stopped.

Let's do some math:

Well, let's set up the building cost of an Custom Office to about 100m ISK in total
- BPC bought throught contracts will cost about 40m ISK (cause i'm very sure most ppl who want to do PI in Nullsec aren't doing this much HighSec Incursions and that's the only way to get ever any Concord LP cause i think just 5 of some hundret non-highsec-incursion got finished until now)
- A single Capital Ship construction and the 71 P4 products will be about 60m ISK (P4 product prices from the weeks before that DevBlog)

Next step, getting the ISK a corp will get from the tax:
I'll take me and about 3 friends of mine as a example. We are as we could get the only ppl doing PI in a certain System, let's add about 2 other unknown guys. Everyone of this 6 ppl is doing with about 2 Chars and 5 Planets per character PI.
As very very common, most ppl just export the P1 or P2 products and ether sell it directly or have a single planet in highsec near a trading hub to procced all their nullsec p1/p2 stuff to p3 or maybe p4.
So we have about 60 colonies in that special system and also say that these colonies are just spread out about 7 planet in this specific system.
That will mean there is a cost of about 700m ISK (don't count the effort u need for bringing all this to work!)
Also say the owner-corp will tax about 15%.
That 60 Colonies are able to get out about 50,4k units of p1 products of all kinds per day. With todays export cost of 0,76 ISK per unit of p1 goods this will result in about 115k ISK taxes the corp will get per day from this 700m investment. That means after about 16,7 years the corp setting up will get to a turning point of making profit with it!

Sry won't happen this way!

People in corps with a high level of trust and resulting in being someone with a lot of roles/titles or a director position in a corp will set up some custom offices just to not switch all things these ppl worked out for their PI-production lines. These ppl will pay the cost from their own wallets and neither their corp nor their alliance will take care if the custom office will leave reinforcement and will be get killed.

That's the reason why i just read about at least 3 ppl wanting to set up the custom office for they privatly and not for there corp, cause they surely know their corp won't care about this. That's by the way no reason to join another corp for nearly every part time loyal member or serious spy.

Why? Cause you (CCP) will always forget that nearly EVERY major alliance takes take about the huge amount of grunts but not of some single ppl or just a bunch of ppl doing something different to get the money.
That means: Getting space for farming anomalies is maybe something on the agenda of alliance leadership IF there is a possibility to get this "good true sec space" but most alliance will NOT start a war just for getting their grunts better true sec systems.
The same with custom offices. I'm 95% sure that nearly all custom office that will be sent to RF won't get any attanchen from the defender and it's just up for the attacker to be bored enough to commit any forces again to destroy it.

Something i read on (i think) page 12 or 13:
Robotics got a price of 6k ISK per Unit. Did u check jita in the last year?
We already have the awesome thing of dynamic balancing of insurance-prices. Why not just simply do the same with the PI stuff and just tax these values?

Some more thinkings:
Well there will be some planets like special Plasma, Lava and Ocean ones worth setting up a Custom Office, but mostly PI in Nullsec will be done in the staging systems of ppl regardless if there are much better planets 2 jumps out or the combination of planets there is much better. They do this just because the effort of flying around and the risk it not worth it. They launch there PI goods and get them to station after getting home from roaming or a fleet fight or just when they add new skills to the queue.

I also very highly like the idea fo different tax for different groups (corp, alliance, +10'ish ppl and so on).
With this possibility it will make sense in my opinion to remove the "only ppl of the sov hoalding alliance are able to set up NEW colonies".

TL;DR: Bolded some parts for the ppl don't want to read all.

My english isn't the best, hope everyone gets at least the main messages i wanted to raise.

#1 Sry forgot something:
The idea behind this, that u will hand over more and more of EVE to the players and by this make the sandbox bigger is great! But it feels again that u don't realy know the ways EVE is played by the ppl that affect the changes!
And please stop thinking that the CSM member are all realy playing EVE the same way as their grunts do! I'm very sure if u ask all CSM member how much involved they are with PI most of them will tell u "tried once, do it maybe once a week but most time don't think about it!".
Also ask Mr Mittani about how willingly he is to force his ppl to grind through more structures after they invaded space and had to show up for about 200 timers just to get SOV.

#2 Also forgot this:
Thx CCP Omen for your nerves and answering so many questions in this thread! ♥

That's my conclusion.

I moved to Low-Sec for PI as the profit was worth the risk, and losing a 100M+ ship from time to time is acceptable.

In the future, I'll pack out of Low-Sec, as my sector is Fw + Pirates + Goons roaming... so I do not give 1h of life expectancy to any undefended structure in any of the systems I work in (and no merc corp will defend that space to become targets to those roamers).

Haters gonna hate... and Grievers gonna have great time... shooting the only thing remaining in space, as there will be even less traffic in Low-Sec than currently. They will shoot the Customs, to try to draw targets out. Only real question to CCP is the %age of goods produced in Low-Sec currently, as this market source is going to dry.

I have no problem over fighting over the control of the Customs, which makes it a source of passive income for the Low-Sec lords (and link it BOTH WAYS to Sovereignty in Null), but having a chance of barring production from others will make PI in Low-Sec disappear, increasing the cost of PI goods again, closing POS across the board as they will again be more expensive.

Will people leave ? surely not, but inflation is the future, as Null produces for Null and High-Sec is overcrowded already... all actions on PI will make a direct action on prices of everything. But perhaps it is one more move from the Null-CSM that wants to add PI-goo to the current Moon-goo monies, and to do so, they need to kill the only competition. Corporate greed ?

Time will see, but that is a blow to Low-Sec, to try to push people to Dust514... My prediction will be that it is back to normal in 12-18 months after Dust settles back to nothingness. Then we'll be back to FiS.

p.s.: meanwhile, I have years of stockpiles of PI goods, so I'll make a lot of monies :)

Bah, these things are worthless in wormholes... they add nothing to the game. Any wormhole corp that taxes it's own members for the PI they do, which often is used to supply the corp with some pos fuel, isn't worth being in in the first place. All they'll be is something to rep up on occassion because some dillweed thought it would be funny to put one in reinforced while you were offline, or worse... a major pain in the ass to people moving into new holes that may have these things littering planets they want to use for PI. The time and effort you'd have to waste to clear them and plant your own... yeah, hooray CCP. We need more grind just to function.