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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

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Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1001 - 2011-10-20 01:10:20 UTC
amarr alt2 wrote:
Hey CCP, Remember this ? http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672

Thats right, the one about CCP CEO apologising to the EVE player base for rushed expansions/features that no-one wants/nerfs that suit the few and not those that actually use the ****, without listening to the player base. ..

Just because he didn't mention PI, doesn't mean you have to **** that up too !



Dang watch where you're waving that.... you're gonna hurt someone with that clearly sharp and pointedly truthful object! Attention

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Solo Player
#1002 - 2011-10-20 01:14:18 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Agreed on the lore part, but personally I prefer that this take a back seat to playability and enjoyment, not to say that there are no concerns there as well. Anything that adds to the already tedious requirements for various tasks in game is bad which makes me support not tying this to standings or complicating the process of placing or gaining control of one. And while making them another structure grind makes it harder for them to change hands, especially to smaller groups or solo players, it also to some extent deters griefing by making people invest time to destroy a somewhat small investment, making it possible that some people just won't bother and allowing smaller groups to retain what holdings they are able to take.

Also there is a bit of tie in to the rest of the game through how the BPC's are obtained and the units are built/sold as well as how the affect PI product import/export which due to POS fuel alone ties this in abit too well maybe to the rest of the game.


Fair enough, though I must admit that it has been a long time since I actually, really enjoyed the playability of EVE (though I am clearly still fascinated and intrigued). Frankly I don't see POCOs change that anytime soon. In fact, it just sounds like more work. IF I play EVE with the goal of "winning", that is, of finding optimal strategies and optimizing every interaction. And making the sandbox even more complex, intertwining even more systems would indeed make it even more work.

That is why I believe they should do exactly that. People too often still think of this as a game instead of a sandbox, a simulation. They try to game its systems and complain (loudly) if it's made more difficult for them. If you were to increase the complexity even more, gaming the system starts to become impossible. Players would have to act more situational in a system that they cannot completely overview, let alone control. And I believe, relieved of the need to control everything, to optimize, to "win", players would actually find fun again in their time in EVE. They'd find themselves more often in unsual, exciting, emergent situations instead of repeating the same routine all over again. They'd live the life of a starship captain instead of moving a spaceship from a to b and pressing buttons, working spreadsheets and smacking their way out of boredom in between,

Of course, I realize, this is not necessarily CCP's vision, and neither the majority of players', and EVE is certainly not currently
moving in that direction, but it is a possibility, and that is what EVE is all about for me: Possibility.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1003 - 2011-10-20 01:19:55 UTC
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
After reading 50 pages I have to agree that this will not work like intended in low sec.

For 0.0 or wormholes, its fine, deploy (with some minor improvements -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=209267#post209267) but for low sec don't deploy this.

---> keep the custom offices there, invulnerable to attacks and RENT them instead, like you rent offices in stations!

In every station in a system in low sec, add a button next to the rent office called rent custom office.
When we press it open a list with all the C. offices that the system has, show information about planet type, how many command centers the planet has, how many ISK will cost to rent the C. Office for 30 days and also show the corp name if any is rented already.

That is it, the rent works like the offices in station, you put it in auto payment, you can cancel payment when you like.

The office belongs to Concord so standings to access it should be according with the standings each user has for Concord. The only thing the renter can change is the C. Office taxes.

To help people to accept this new changes, all c.offices are deactivated until rented.

Also define renting prices based on planet types, the rare ones should be more expensive. Give discounts for corps that have good standings with Concord,

PS: for systems in low sec with no station that we can dock to rent the c. offices I'm out of ideas, but is a small problem and it needs to be solved for this to work properly in all low sec systems.


Some ideas for the future- > Lets assume renting is a success and c.offices aren't available for renting ->>>>>Renting can be done by auction!

- Each office has minimum starting bid and a huge buyout price, the auction time is of 1 day
- The auction starts after the first bid is made.
- Anyone with a command center in the planet where the office is, receives a email with the warning of the auction start
- After 24 hours the winner, rents the office for 30 days
- at any moment of the 24 hours anybody can buyout the rent
- all proposals but the first are secret
- everybody receives mails that a corp x made a bid
- you can only bid once every hour

and that is it, the winner takes the rent, the others receive their money back and a email with the winner name and the ISK it pay for the 30 day rent.

- when the rent ends, if the user has the automatic pay setting for c.offices, the auction starts automatically with the minimum bid and we start the auction process all over again....


Other cool ideas, since you are iterating over PI:

1 - Why not instead of give x5 bonus to links, create a book to train (level 1) that gives that? we really need objectives and more stuff to train in this game, you have a opportunity here use it!

2 - Why not gives us even more books to train that improve PI, like:
- A book that reduces in 5% each level the power consumption of extractor heads
- A book that reduces in 3-5% each level the CPU consumption of PI structures
- A book that reduces in 3-5% each level the power consumption of PI structures
- A book that improves heads yield in 2% each level per hour
- A book that improves production cycles of factories 1 minute per level

GIVE US COOKIES


Why not just make them like Outposts in the way that in low sec POCO's aren't destructible but can be reinforced, and through a specified mechanic, ownership can change after contestation and then being held for the appropriate time - if not and the defenders successfully drive off the challengers, then it stays with the current occupant.

Standings would still be set by CONCORD as you mention, but the political conflict element is retained. Rent being charged or not is irrelevant as it is not intended to be an ISK sink for the Corporate occupant.

Corporation is free to set tarif rates as they see fit, but universal access remains.


Something to consider for sure in regards to low sec

+1

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
TheDoctorUK
BSC LEGION
#1004 - 2011-10-20 01:46:28 UTC
-1 CCP No No No

Reason : More staff losses with in turn less subs - soon(tm)
Taarna Tarakian
GV Dark Roast Ground Coffee
#1005 - 2011-10-20 02:05:50 UTC
One small suggestion as long as you are looking at PI. Could you change the color of the extractor heads?
Light white/light pulseing blue on a white background is not very contrasted, making it hard to place the heads or keep them from overlapping.
You do want to place your extractors on the highest P1 concentration showing up as White, Right?

Not whineing, this is just tough on my old eyes.

Thank You in advance Big smile
Axure Abbacus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1006 - 2011-10-20 02:28:58 UTC
If player corporations run these customs offices, it would be good to see a corporate hanger feature with these structures. Otherwise, why bother with the expense.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#1007 - 2011-10-20 02:30:10 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
GoneMissing wrote:
Whoa whoa WHOA!!

> Customs Offices in all Low Sec, 0.0 and Wormhole systems will be decommissioned and removed.
X

I will need a much clearer explanation of the mechanics here.
Those of us who currently DO have PI colonies running in non-empire spaces have already invested capital and logistical efforts in getting those colonies running under the previous rules with launchpads and Command Center logistical/behavioral rules already established. ONE of those rules is that the Command Centers merely must exist - they did *NOT* necessarily need to be a part of the installed communications links between the other facilities and launchpads in order to operate a colony and to import/export materials.

If all the existing Customs Offices are summarily removed, and we don't have either replacement Corporate Customs Offices _nor_ the availability of blueprints or the other materials to construct them readily available (say in wspace) to quickly replace them, then quite simply WE WILL GET SCREWED BY THIS CHANGE when the existing Customs Offices go *poof* and our launchpads have nothing to "communicate with"! XX

It will take us quite a bit of extra TIME AND CAPITAL and LOGISTICAL EFFORT in-game to regain our current functionality (not to mention the LOST INCOME)!

I cry FOUL!!


Within a few minutes after the patch goes live you will see BPC's for the gantry available in every major market.

Shortly after that, the Gantry's will be available on the market for purchase.

You may need to launch rockets for a while until you get set up again, which will be tedious.

You will need to shell out ISK for the BPC or Gantry (if you don't have loyalty points to spend), and for the materials to build/upgrade it to a PCO.

After your initial investment you will be making 5% more than you currently are, 10% more than anyone in Empire will be able to thereafter. It will take a little while to start pulling ahead in the game, but then your profits increase.

Pro's and Con's.


I am unsure if this has already been pointed out as it is difficult to keep up with this thread, but GoneMissing's point was about not having any means to get his goo off the planet as his Command Center is not connected to anything and he cannot use the rockets until he, or someone else, puts up a POCO, which may not be in a timely manner for his PI (depending how he has it setup).
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1008 - 2011-10-20 02:53:01 UTC
BTW, many FW players will be severely disappointed if this turns into the FW occupancy mechanic.... FYI.
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1009 - 2011-10-20 03:18:37 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
BTW, many FW players will be severely disappointed if this turns into the FW occupancy mechanic.... FYI.


Ha mabye this was the change to FW , bring people in by requiring them to need concord LP X
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1010 - 2011-10-20 03:24:59 UTC
Buruk Utama wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
BTW, many FW players will be severely disappointed if this turns into the FW occupancy mechanic.... FYI.


Ha mabye this was the change to FW , bring people in by requiring them to need concord LP X


FW gives Concord LP? Also I don't see it stated or insinuated this had anything to do with FW occupancy
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1011 - 2011-10-20 03:56:26 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
BTW, many FW players will be severely disappointed if this turns into the FW occupancy mechanic.... FYI.



... IF?


Prepare to be disappointed.... Pirate

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1012 - 2011-10-20 03:57:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Buruk Utama wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
BTW, many FW players will be severely disappointed if this turns into the FW occupancy mechanic.... FYI.


Ha mabye this was the change to FW , bring people in by requiring them to need concord LP X


FW gives Concord LP? Also I don't see it stated or insinuated this had anything to do with FW occupancy


No FW does not give Concord LP - each militia will have a BPC in inventory for purchase with their LP at 50% of what CONCORD will be charging....


Disappointed yet?

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#1013 - 2011-10-20 04:00:56 UTC
Awesome idea
Should bring GF's to lolsec

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1014 - 2011-10-20 04:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
edit nevermind.
HomeSpun
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1015 - 2011-10-20 04:15:33 UTC

Why are you taking PI out of the control of the players and placing it in the hands of the corporation?
What?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1016 - 2011-10-20 04:27:46 UTC
This is not going to work well for lo-sec and NPC null-sec. The biggest issue is going to be that you spend 6-12M ISK setting up a PI planet, only to have the POCO owner turn around and deny you access the next day. The problem is not that they can deny you access (that's a good mechanic), the problem is that they can do so on a whim of the moment (such as when you enter the system to attempt to pickup your product).

The solution to that might be that if you change standings access or tax rates that it takes 7 or 14 days before that new access mask / tax rate goes into effect. And when it is changed by the owner, then a notification needs to be sent to every player that has a command center on that planet. That will give people time to evacuate their products and seek out a better landlord.

(I say 7 days as the minimum, because for most PI planets, that's about the time it takes for a P1 harvest planet to pay for itself. But it could be as little as 72h. Lower then that and I think it puts too much power in the hands of the landlord.)
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1017 - 2011-10-20 05:18:57 UTC
I wonder what the impact would be if one of the planet-side structures we get to build when the DUST/EVE link comes live would be a shield generator? The purpose of the shield generator would be to rep shields of the CO at a rate equivalent to 100% every minute, with higher level shield generators simply rendering the beanstalk immune to damage.

You know, so you have to hire Dust Bunnies to go and land on the planet to shut down the shield generator? And they have to do so at the time that your fleet arrives to engage the fully operational deat— sorry, customs office.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1018 - 2011-10-20 05:47:41 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
I wonder what the impact would be if one of the planet-side structures we get to build when the DUST/EVE link comes live would be a shield generator? The purpose of the shield generator would be to rep shields of the CO at a rate equivalent to 100% every minute, with higher level shield generators simply rendering the beanstalk immune to damage.

You know, so you have to hire Dust Bunnies to go and land on the planet to shut down the shield generator? And they have to do so at the time that your fleet arrives to engage the fully operational deat— sorry, customs office.


I like

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Toshiro GreyHawk
#1019 - 2011-10-20 06:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk
OK ... can't be arsed to read 51 pages ... so here's my two cents.


First off - a few concepts you don't seem to have a good handle on ...

1) As in the real world - it is far easier to blow something up - than it is to build it. For this reason - industrialists are MOSTLY cautious with their investments. Why sink your money into something some bunch of terrorists, rebels or enemies of the state you're building it in can just come along and blow up? The same thing applies to the game. This means that MOST industrialists are going to stay in Hi Sec - no matter what you do. They will quit the game before they will go down to Lo Sec. So - ******* with them by doubling the taxes they pay for something - will accomplish NOTHING but pissing them off. You can NOT change that. You can make people quit - but you cannot change that fundamental fact of the game. Individuals may come and go - but the type of people who are in Lo & Hi Sec now - are going to remain the same and consequently - be present in the same percentages.

2) Lo Sec is mostly about combat. You have some people who go down there to make money but most of the people down there are there to blow each other up. The ones down there making money are there mostly because it's a more exciting way to make money than up in Hi Sec - not because they can make more of it.

3) If Dust is dependent on players building things on planets in Lo Sec for the people of Dust to attack - there's going to be nothing left after the first day. Dust - to succeed - MUST have some other purpose for people to be involved in. It's like Walking in Stations - you've really got to have some content that is NEW to these expansions or they will both be failures.




As long as people can launch to space - they won't let another player gouge them - which is exactly what the other players in EVE will do. Take away their ability to launch into space - and they will give up on PI.

So - the basic concept behind the POCO - is a failure. Add to that the fact that it can be blown up - and has to be defended by ships (!) since it is defenseless and you've got a ludicrous idea.


Just off the top of my head ... here's some things that you could do to make this work ...


1) Scrap the idea of this structure as a Customs Office and view it as an orbital industrial platform. Essentially something akin to a POS that is in orbit around a Planet rather than a moon. It can serve as a transshipment point - that's fine - but you need something MORE than that for it to be successful.

2) Come with some advantage having such a structure in orbit will give you to using the resources of the planet.

a) It could increase the number of colonies you can field on the surface.
b) It could hold factories in space that could further process the planets materials.
c) It must be defensible. It absolutely MUST have weapons of it's own or allow a POS to be built next to it with it's weapons to protect it.
d) Allow players to create and rent offices where they can park their ships and set up their factories.
e) Come up with additional items that can be manufactured in these stations, or bought or sold there.
f) Let there be more than one per planet.
g) Make it so they can be captured by landing troops on them rather than just being destroyed - that would give the Dust people something else to do besides fight on the surface.
h) Allow them to (somehow) attack or defend the colonies on the surface. Make them into platforms from which the PLANET can be attacked or defended.
I) Allow colonies on the surface to erect shield modules to pretect themselves and weapons modules to fire back.
J) Give the orbital platforms and the colonies drones.
K) Make the transshipment an actual ship that leaves the surface and travels to the orbital station.
L) Let players land their own ships at colonies and fly through the atmosphere ... (remember that?) ...

Essentially ... make them something like smaller versions of the NPC Stations - but with an emphasis on doing things involving the planet below them.


If the idea is to succeed - it cannot be just something else for the PVP people to blow up - they aren't going to build them. You have to have a REASON for industrialists to build them - and if you want peole to build them in Lo Sec - it's got to be not only a damn good reason - but they have to be defensible too.

Anyway ... whatever you do ... the idea you've got now is a failure. At best - it will be ignored ... at worst it will ruin PI ... which is in bad enough shape already.

What you needed was something to make PI better - not worse - such as the ability for the Corporation to have designated members move the goods rather than just having one person do it all.
Kim Lesley Hartman
Hartman Ornamental Confectionery and Pies
#1020 - 2011-10-20 07:10:31 UTC
Having thought on this feature some more I think you could fix most of the concerns raised regarding lowsec and NPC null fairly simple. Do not give people the ability to deny people access to their POCO's there. Maybe do give them the ability of variable tax rates based on standing (though I realise that might be hard to code for).

My reasoning is this; your corporate wallet will show the transactions and thus you will have it timestamped when your enemies access the offices, want to deny them? Take action on that. But no easy you can't use this.

This way you don't shut the smaller entities out and owners will see more usage and thus better returns on their investment. And get the extra intel of when hostile indy's are active through walllet timestamps.

Irrelevant, but; also makes more sense from a story point of view lowsec and npc null are somebodies 'property' already. Them giving rights to people to exploit CO's seems possible. Them giving others total control over planetary in- and export does not.