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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

First post First post
Author
Dragnkat
The Chartered Company
#201 - 2011-10-18 15:43:47 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
@CCP Omen

Can you look at balancing the rocket delivery method? I haven't used it forever and I'm not in-game right now but if I remember right its pretty pathetic. It should be a viable option in some cases, such as planets that don't and probably won't get a CO and for smugglers. It'll also help during the transition period.


Second this, I'm not going to take the time and the risk to keep my blockade runner in low sec trying to rocket launch off multiple planets. It';s not worth the time (i only have a couple hours of playtime before and after work) and it's not worth the risk of playing pirate dodgeball and hunting cans with a BR either.

And I thought that was the whole point of EVE? Why am I after taking the time to train my skills specifically so I can risk ninja'ing PI goods out of low sec being penalized for it by this change that now requires me to try and get on the good side of another corp just to move my stuff. And that's provided they can even be bothered to set up the CO in the first place. Or be forced to sit there and rocket hunt all day long? At that point even high sec PI would be worth it just to avoid the time sink, oh wait double taxes makes what was already a system impossible to make a profit off of even less practical!

Screws over the ninjas and smugglers and just makes even PI part of the endless megacorp blob warfare. And that much harder for smaller corps to try and get anywhere.

Omen this idea is flat out horrible, all you're doing is going to murder low sec PI and just send everyone back to hugging high sec or running missions. If this change goes through I can tell you right now I'll be scrapping my entire PI setup, I won't be putting up with high sec tax hikes, and this little guy supplier won't be putting my advanced goods on the market anymore.

Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#202 - 2011-10-18 15:43:48 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Ra Voreen wrote:
How will it work in null-sec ? Are the planets still reserved to the alliance that holds sov ?


We are undecided on this topic, it could go either way right now any preference?
Regards
Omen

My personal preference would be making it SOV-UNrelated.


What will happen when a planet had NO customs office btw? You just need to shoot everything into space yourself?
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#203 - 2011-10-18 15:44:44 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Ra Voreen wrote:
How will it work in null-sec ? Are the planets still reserved to the alliance that holds sov ?


We are undecided on this topic, it could go either way right now any preference?
Regards
Omen


I'd say you can only have sov if yiu own all customs offices in that system, you can take siv only if at least half the customs offices in that system are gone. would give taking sov a huge strategix aspect. and lots moar pewpew
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#204 - 2011-10-18 15:44:55 UTC
As I think more about it - they should just be a special version of a POS tower with the following limitations:

- Only anchorable at a planet's warp-in grid (and automatically centered on the grid).
- No shield bubble like a normal POS tower.
- Only batteries can be anchored around it (ECM, guns, etc).

Then give us (4) sizes so that corps/alliances can choose the level of defenses that they want to allow by anchoring larger variants. The base size should have about 1/2 the PG/CPU of an existing small tower (a.k.a. a "micro" POCO), then the S/M/L variants should be similar to existing towers.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2011-10-18 15:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
Chaos Incarnate wrote:


These HP values (and the length of the reinforcement timers) seem a bit high to me, tbh. The problems are:

-In nullsec and lowsec, i don't really feel most people will care about destroying them, as they're fairly low-value targets and griefing someone's PI isn't a huge deal. Moreover, being as there's a reinforcement timer, having a large amount of HP seems somewhat unjustified. Lowering the HP and timers would make it more enticing to blow them up.

-In w-space, the long reinforcement timers are going to make it very hard to attack them as a 'roaming gang' style. You can't get a connection to a system, reinforce the offices, blow them up, and still evac before your wormhole in collapses. The HP amounts are going to make it problematic as well, as even with a ten-man gang of dps t3s or bombers you're still talking 20-30 minutes per office at anywhere up to ten or more planets. Making the timers shorter and reducing the HP would make it more feasable to clean out customs offices as a means to provoke a fight.

Incidentally, are customs office kills going to generate killmails?


I would support this ONLY if they in turn give a way to setup defenses. As I said in an earlier post my big issue is that you are asking people to invest time (build, transport setup) and isk into a structure that they have little control over its defense. I cannot choose a way to deter attack.

take for example a WH as you mention above. This happens to be my situation. I have a corp with a bunch of friends. We all live in the same general timezone. So there are large portions of time where were we are all offline. I factored that in when building a POS with defenses. But now there would be nothing stopping anyone from just attacking all the CO's while we are all asleep. It doesn't add any fun, or pew pew, just grief.

In reality I could see adding guns to make it even more fun. It now makes warping away to a safe more risky, better not pick a planet or you could go BOOM when you land.
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
#206 - 2011-10-18 15:46:53 UTC
Pipip Mendicant wrote:
Rather than nuke every lowsec/nullsec/wh customs office when this releases, you should leave them up but make them attackable.

It forces corps that want one to first be strong enough to take one down, leaves current production temporarily in place, and lets you test your new mechanic on a large scale before the PI market gets out of control if your assumptions were wrong. Not to mention that it leaves ninja PI in place until some large entity takes an interest in your out-of-the-way system, which helps out the little guy.



I like that, it keeps the existing infrastructure intact, and allows for smoother transition.
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#207 - 2011-10-18 15:47:21 UTC
Dragnkat wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
@CCP Omen

Can you look at balancing the rocket delivery method? I haven't used it forever and I'm not in-game right now but if I remember right its pretty pathetic. It should be a viable option in some cases, such as planets that don't and probably won't get a CO and for smugglers. It'll also help during the transition period.


Second this, I'm not going to take the time and the risk to keep my blockade runner in low sec trying to rocket launch off multiple planets. It';s not worth the time (i only have a couple hours of playtime before and after work) and it's not worth the risk of playing pirate dodgeball and hunting cans with a BR either.

And I thought that was the whole point of EVE? Why am I after taking the time to train my skills specifically so I can risk ninja'ing PI goods out of low sec being penalized for it by this change that now requires me to try and get on the good side of another corp just to move my stuff. And that's provided they can even be bothered to set up the CO in the first place. Or be forced to sit there and rocket hunt all day long? At that point even high sec PI would be worth it just to avoid the time sink, oh wait double taxes makes what was already a system impossible to make a profit off of even less practical!

Screws over the ninjas and smugglers and just makes even PI part of the endless megacorp blob warfare. And that much harder for smaller corps to try and get anywhere.

Omen this idea is flat out horrible, all you're doing is going to murder low sec PI and just send everyone back to hugging high sec or running missions. If this change goes through I can tell you right now I'll be scrapping my entire PI setup, I won't be putting up with high sec tax hikes, and this little guy supplier won't be putting my advanced goods on the market anymore.



You're one of those people I talked about getting hit kinda hard with the proposed changes. There's nothing being offered to these people for essentially nerfing their way of playing the game to the point that they can't play. This change only offers large amounts of risk, with comparably little to no reward.
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#208 - 2011-10-18 15:48:42 UTC
Ruairi iliffe wrote:
CCP Omen wrote:
The Customs Office is very relevant in our future plans (don't dare go in to specifics right here, right now) so increased capability and costs will probably be added in the future.


Its the fact that in ALL the DUST media you keep showing an Orbital Elevator isnt it? That at some point we can upgrade the Offices to become either a full fledged station, i mean, We knew at some point we are to have a location in space for us to fight over, and PI control would be determined by who controls both the ground and sky, the fact we can attack them with this idea means its part of the set up to full interaction, heck even that was shown in the trailers.

EDIT: Also that leads into why this is Low sec and 0.0 only for the charges and ownership....

/tinfoil hat off

Anyway that was my random 'it all makes sense' moment.


The answer is 42.

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#209 - 2011-10-18 15:54:04 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Like the "invulnerable to super capitals" idea.

Suggestions:
1. The warp in acts like a warp in to an anomoly (reduce nanofaggotry)
2. No cynos directly at customs office. (unless people do this already for PI ? )
Kenpachi Viktor
Perkone
Caldari State
#210 - 2011-10-18 15:54:07 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Midnight Hope wrote:
If you are going to blow up every PO on launch date, I hope you thought what you are going to do with all the stuff in those offices. Are you going to blow it up as well??

I can already see PI prices spiking, regardless of the increase in link capacity.

The stuff that you have in the CO's will be teleported to a station hangar. I forgot the exact details of which station etc.


It should be lootable when the CO comes out of reinforcement Pirate

A war that would’ve involved 20,000 players, 75% of nullsec space, and hundreds of supercapitals was halted not by diplomacy, but by a game mechanic so dreadful that those who have experienced it previously have no desire to do so again. - Fix POS & SOV

Addergebroed
Doomheim
#211 - 2011-10-18 15:54:22 UTC
So this basically is CCP Shrugged; PI interdiction?
MichaelaB2
Space Exploitations and Examinations
#212 - 2011-10-18 15:54:47 UTC
Pipip Mendicant wrote:
Rather than nuke every lowsec/nullsec/wh customs office when this releases, you should leave them up but make them attackable.

It forces corps that want one to first be strong enough to take one down, leaves current production temporarily in place, and lets you test your new mechanic on a large scale before the PI market gets out of control if your assumptions were wrong. Not to mention that it leaves ninja PI in place until some large entity takes an interest in your out-of-the-way system, which helps out the little guy.



Exactly what I was thinking!

I LIKE!
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2011-10-18 15:56:02 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Midnight Hope wrote:
If you are going to blow up every PO on launch date, I hope you thought what you are going to do with all the stuff in those offices. Are you going to blow it up as well??

I can already see PI prices spiking, regardless of the increase in link capacity.

The stuff that you have in the CO's will be teleported to a station hangar. I forgot the exact details of which station etc.



Station hangar! What about those of us who live in a wormhole? A station hangar is not exactly around the corner!
Audrey Antollare
Friendship is Podding
#214 - 2011-10-18 15:56:21 UTC
I'm liking this idea. I'm hoping any further changes to PI promote small scale warfare.
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#215 - 2011-10-18 15:56:41 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
It seems to me that part of the goal of this change is to give small gangs more "targets of opportunity" that they can use to harass larger alliances. As such, can you tell me if the following option is on the table: Aside from just the "glory" of reinforcing one of these offices, do the attackers get any reward (i.e. PI materials from the office) either when they reinforce it, or after they destroy it, or both?

Your comment earlier indicates that you would still be able to withdraw materials even in reinforced mode, which means that any physical reward to taking one of these down is pretty minor, and that even the tactical or strategic reward would be very minor at best.


Yes, we don't incentivize taking Customs Offices down, other than if you want the spot or want to refuse the current owner access. We want it to be a political feature more than a mechanical one.

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison

Tammarr
#216 - 2011-10-18 15:57:06 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Like the "invulnerable to super capitals" idea.

Suggestions:
1. The warp in acts like a warp in to an anomoly
2. No cynos directly at customs office. (unless people do this already for PI ? )




Anomaly would mean you cant warp to fleet members >150km off. This would only encourage nanofleet and put other means at a disadvantage.
+15 for not allowing supercaps ^^
Pat Irvam
Doomheim
#217 - 2011-10-18 15:58:26 UTC
Well as a wormhole dweller this has some major impacts which will also impact the t3 market in addition to the t2 market.

First im not opposed to building these things or having them blown up, personally I like the conflict they can generate.

My big concern is with the bpc release.

First how many runs?

Second with such a large number of these bpcs coming from such a small source they will be a huge bottleneck benefiting incursion runners who all ready make isk comparable to null and wh space in high sec. Also after the inital demand is done why would anyone cash in there lp on them when they could cash in on other more valuable lp rewards leading to the possibility of no ability to make more customs offices for periods of time.

I think that at very least the corps offering bpcs should be expanded. Let them come from mission runners as well like rodens.

The cost of these things will still stay prohibitive with the lack of pi goo but at least it gives those in wh space and null the ability to get what we need by running missions, not having to drop our activities to go play incursions and faction warfare.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2011-10-18 15:58:26 UTC
If we blow them up do they drop everything or is it chance based like blowing up players' ships?
Pat Irvam
Doomheim
#219 - 2011-10-18 15:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pat Irvam
double post
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#220 - 2011-10-18 15:58:45 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
CCP Omen wrote:
Dinta Zembo wrote:
So this means that if I'm the only person using a bunch of planets for PI, I will have to personally invest hundreds of millions of ISK in to buying 5 customs offices? Don't think so.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Someone else could set them up and you just use them and pay taxes?

LOL. I wonder who these mysterious strangers will be running around chucking up PCOs everywhere?
The best planets will get PCOs and the rest will just stop being used.


Correct, but it doesn't have to be you that sets up the PCO at the best planet, it could still be someone else.

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison