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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#981 - 2013-05-02 15:20:17 UTC
TheFace Asano wrote:
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Tracking

Slot layout: 8H 7H (-1), 5M, 6L 7L (+1); 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 16000 PWG(+500), 550 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(+46) / 7300(+1089) / 6800(+259)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+87.5) / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 130 (+5) / .12 / 101050000(-2250000) / 16.81s(-.37s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km(+5k) / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 360(+20)

Change to 10 % RoF and 7.5% tracking bonus, lose a high, gain a low, add in a little more speed.

This change would give it some flavor over the current offerings. With the Armageddon being nuet bonused now, who needs to bring the Tempest for the job? I could see some 1200 Arty fits working with this as well as better application for the 800's giving it a better difference between the Mael and the Nado.

changes in bold


I was thinking along the same lines in terms of a tracking bonus as the other attack lines like mega/apoc get them.
Although if they took that line they would surely have to add more turrets like the mega and apoc.
Or if they want it to kite rather than project/brawl than maybe a falloff bonus. although that would compete with nado even though people use the nado more for arties rather than autos.... i still don't get why the nado can fit arties with a falloff bonus.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#982 - 2013-05-02 17:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
So much from that naomi I saw already and finally I could bring myself to just hide her posts. In the name of everything taped together, that is a really blind person.

Sooo... gave the tempest another try. Afterwards comparing to a mega and apoc (I only haz t1 large hybrids/lasers), must say it would be best to just pretend the tempest doesn't exist. The hull looks nice, but it's really close to be the phantasm amongst the battleships.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#983 - 2013-05-02 17:23:09 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
So much from that naomi I saw already and finally I could bring myself to just hide her posts. In the name of everything taped together, that is a really blind person.

Sooo... gave the tempest another try. Afterwards comparing to a mega and apoc (I only haz t1 large hybrids/lasers), must say it would be best to just pretend the tempest doesn't exist. The hull looks nice, but it's really close to be the phantasm amongst the battleships.

do that whinematard
you matar fanboys are full of .... , cant see what is balanced and what is so op after flying too many op matar ships
qq more so ccp overboost tempest and you can enjoy winmatar online for another years to come
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#984 - 2013-05-02 17:31:03 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:

do that whinematard
you matar fanboys are full of .... , cant see what is balanced and what is so op after flying too many op matar ships
qq more so ccp overboost tempest and you can enjoy winmatar online for another years to come



As someone who has level 5 skills in EVERY SINGLE SUBCAPITAL COMBAT SHIP OF EVERY RACE except tech 3 Gallente and Amarr, I can state that this post is full of feces.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#985 - 2013-05-02 17:39:09 UTC
Wrayeth wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

do that whinematard
you matar fanboys are full of .... , cant see what is balanced and what is so op after flying too many op matar ships
qq more so ccp overboost tempest and you can enjoy winmatar online for another years to come



As someone who has level 5 skills in EVERY SINGLE SUBCAPITAL COMBAT SHIP OF EVERY RACE except tech 3 Gallente and Amarr, I can state that this post is full of *****.

quess what your char skills doesnt make you perfect at balancing
btw my main can fly every supcap yup every one of them at lvl5, so even according to your lame thining I can say that your post if full of *****

oh yeah tempest with 10%rof/lvl wouldnt be op at all ,lets see that would make it use 12 effective guns ,while apoc has 8 ,mega has 9.33 and raven has 8 launchers , oh but the tempest would be also faster smaller and tankier and could fit 1 utility highs
you clearly cant gasp what is balanced and what isnt go hide my posts as it probably hurt your babyfeeling by saying that what you are asking for is wrong, I bet you angry against anybody who thinks else what you think

do you realy think that wouldnt be op at all?

whinematard go away , you are just another spoiled matar who knows no better to fly op ships
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#986 - 2013-05-02 17:48:43 UTC
Wrayeth wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

do that whinematard
you matar fanboys are full of .... , cant see what is balanced and what is so op after flying too many op matar ships
qq more so ccp overboost tempest and you can enjoy winmatar online for another years to come



As someone who has level 5 skills in EVERY SINGLE SUBCAPITAL COMBAT SHIP OF EVERY RACE except tech 3 Gallente and Amarr, I can state that this post is full of *****.



I dare you find a single post by Naomi that is not full of ****

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#987 - 2013-05-02 19:11:57 UTC
Wrayeth wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+8% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+10% bonus to Large Projectile Falloff

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 17000 PWG, 650 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7300 / 7400 / 6400
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+87.5) / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .104 / 101000000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km(+5k) / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 360(+20)


This really doesn't interest me. It doesn't do anything for the Tempest's anemic DPS, doesn't do much for its mobility over Rise's currently proposed change, and pigeon-holes the tempest into a shield fit. Sure, you could still armor tank it, but what, exactly, are you going to do with that extra mid?

* The days of overpowered sensor dampers are long since gone

* Tracking disruptors have also been nerfed for non-bonused ships (and your sig is the size of a small moon anyway).

* The Multispec of Doom™ hasn't been viable for 7 years (I used to fly with one fit to my Tempest from 2005 until when it got the axe, and it really did need nerfing - I once kept a Blasterthron jammed for an entire fight with just one multispec while I slowly chewed him to pieces).

* Target painters could help somewhat when dealing with smaller opponents, but again they don't have enough of an effect on a non-bonused ship.

I suppose you could use a dual-prop fit and gain a marginal boost when you're scrambled, but since you're a battleship and slow to begin with, it really wouldn't be the most helpful thing in the universe.

Now let's look at what you give up for that single midslot which is nearly useless on an armor fit: 1 heavy neutralizer. It doesn't sound like much, but this can be the difference between capping out your opponent and turning off such unimportant things as the warp scrambler keeping you from MWDing to maintain range and the ancillary armor rep that's keeping him alive, and dying because you weren't able to do those things.

IMO, the only thing worth giving up the second neut for is a 7th turret slot like the Machariel has.

TLDR;
Do. Not. Want.


Pretty Much this, 6 mid slots doesn't thrill me much either for the record.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#988 - 2013-05-02 19:19:14 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Wrayeth wrote:
Pattern Clarc wrote:

Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+8% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
+10% bonus to Large Projectile Falloff

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 6 turrets , 4 launchers
Fittings: 17000 PWG, 650 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7300 / 7400 / 6400
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400(+87.5) / 1154s / 4.68
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 / .104 / 101000000
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 67.5km(+5k) / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength(+1)
Signature radius: 360(+20)


This really doesn't interest me. It doesn't do anything for the Tempest's anemic DPS, doesn't do much for its mobility over Rise's currently proposed change, and pigeon-holes the tempest into a shield fit. Sure, you could still armor tank it, but what, exactly, are you going to do with that extra mid?

* The days of overpowered sensor dampers are long since gone

* Tracking disruptors have also been nerfed for non-bonused ships (and your sig is the size of a small moon anyway).

* The Multispec of Doom™ hasn't been viable for 7 years (I used to fly with one fit to my Tempest from 2005 until when it got the axe, and it really did need nerfing - I once kept a Blasterthron jammed for an entire fight with just one multispec while I slowly chewed him to pieces).

* Target painters could help somewhat when dealing with smaller opponents, but again they don't have enough of an effect on a non-bonused ship.

I suppose you could use a dual-prop fit and gain a marginal boost when you're scrambled, but since you're a battleship and slow to begin with, it really wouldn't be the most helpful thing in the universe.

Now let's look at what you give up for that single midslot which is nearly useless on an armor fit: 1 heavy neutralizer. It doesn't sound like much, but this can be the difference between capping out your opponent and turning off such unimportant things as the warp scrambler keeping you from MWDing to maintain range and the ancillary armor rep that's keeping him alive, and dying because you weren't able to do those things.

IMO, the only thing worth giving up the second neut for is a 7th turret slot like the Machariel has.

TLDR;
Do. Not. Want.


Pretty Much this, 6 mid slots doesn't thrill me much either for the record.



I can find several good ways to do it. Full tackle (long and short and web) + MWD + AB + injector in an acrtive armor tanked ship. Can be a very good 1v1 ship.. limited role but a role.

And can be made into an excelent shield ship.

2 neuts is not an important role anymore. If you want neuts.. you bring an armageddon now.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#989 - 2013-05-02 20:13:06 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Wrayeth wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

do that whinematard
you matar fanboys are full of .... , cant see what is balanced and what is so op after flying too many op matar ships
qq more so ccp overboost tempest and you can enjoy winmatar online for another years to come



As someone who has level 5 skills in EVERY SINGLE SUBCAPITAL COMBAT SHIP OF EVERY RACE except tech 3 Gallente and Amarr, I can state that this post is full of *****.

quess what your char skills doesnt make you perfect at balancing
btw my main can fly every supcap yup every one of them at lvl5, so even according to your lame thining I can say that your post if full of *****

oh yeah tempest with 10%rof/lvl wouldnt be op at all ,lets see that would make it use 12 effective guns ,while apoc has 8 ,mega has 9.33 and raven has 8 launchers , oh but the tempest would be also faster smaller and tankier and could fit 1 utility highs
you clearly cant gasp what is balanced and what isnt go hide my posts as it probably hurt your babyfeeling by saying that what you are asking for is wrong, I bet you angry against anybody who thinks else what you think

do you realy think that wouldnt be op at all?

whinematard go away , you are just another spoiled matar who knows no better to fly op ships


So instead of the 10% RoF give it a 10% damage bonus instead so it is not that much higher. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say the Tempest is OP either....
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#990 - 2013-05-02 20:13:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
Kagura Nikon wrote:

And can be made into an excelent shield ship.


And there is the gist of it, the main agenda for the 6 mids slot push is to make an excellent shield ship nothing more or less. And while having the 6th midslot might allow for some colorful gimmicks on an armor tank none of them really shine. Even by your own use of the words good in comparison with the word excellent shows your own thoughts on the matter. I am sorry that the Maelstrom isn't the poor man's Mach that so many people want the Tempest to be. But the matar already have a shield tanking projectile battleship.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#991 - 2013-05-02 20:36:40 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

And can be made into an excelent shield ship.


And there is the gist of it, the main agenda for the 6 mids slot push is to make an excellent shield ship nothing more or less. And while having the 6th midslot might allow for some colorful gimmicks on an armor tank none of them really shine. Even by your own use of the words good in comparison with the word excellent shows your own thoughts on the matter. I am sorry that the Maelstrom isn't the poor man's Mach that so many people want the Tempest to be. But the matar already have a shield tanking projectile battleship.



Better be excelent shield ship than a mediocre armor and shield one :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#992 - 2013-05-02 21:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
TheFace Asano wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
Wrayeth wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

do that whinematard
you matar fanboys are full of .... , cant see what is balanced and what is so op after flying too many op matar ships
qq more so ccp overboost tempest and you can enjoy winmatar online for another years to come



As someone who has level 5 skills in EVERY SINGLE SUBCAPITAL COMBAT SHIP OF EVERY RACE except tech 3 Gallente and Amarr, I can state that this post is full of *****.

quess what your char skills doesnt make you perfect at balancing
btw my main can fly every supcap yup every one of them at lvl5, so even according to your lame thining I can say that your post if full of *****

oh yeah tempest with 10%rof/lvl wouldnt be op at all ,lets see that would make it use 12 effective guns ,while apoc has 8 ,mega has 9.33 and raven has 8 launchers , oh but the tempest would be also faster smaller and tankier and could fit 1 utility highs
you clearly cant gasp what is balanced and what isnt go hide my posts as it probably hurt your babyfeeling by saying that what you are asking for is wrong, I bet you angry against anybody who thinks else what you think

do you realy think that wouldnt be op at all?

whinematard go away , you are just another spoiled matar who knows no better to fly op ships


So instead of the 10% RoF give it a 10% damage bonus instead so it is not that much higher. I don't think I have ever heard anyone say the Tempest is OP either....



Hmm well lets see. Battlecruiser sig, battleship tank. Amazing speed and awesome firepower, and with arty its murders most things in comes in contact with, and it can challenge the best of other races.

That is just one of the matar batttleships. The maelstrom is a monster in every sense of the word and matar ships represent the strongest BS fleets in game. Alpha arty fleets.

In fact matar ships are the most common ships in pvp and have enjoyed eve superiority for over 2+ years.

Saying Matar ships dont have any advantages over other races is like saying a fat kid hates being in a candy store. You can smell the bull from miles away.

Matar pilots claiming thier ships are junk are people who want to continue their reign of eve dominance.
To which devs are nerfing shield resist tank bonuses and will make alpha fleets even more dominant.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#993 - 2013-05-02 22:11:45 UTC
It's funny, I proposed the 7/6/6 +fall off bonuses on FHC and received almost unanimous approval. It seems some are only interested in turning the tempest into a hyperion with 2 unbonused highs, or a larger hurricane - both of which offer little to the game imo.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#994 - 2013-05-03 02:55:25 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

And can be made into an excelent shield ship.


And there is the gist of it, the main agenda for the 6 mids slot push is to make an excellent shield ship nothing more or less. And while having the 6th midslot might allow for some colorful gimmicks on an armor tank none of them really shine. Even by your own use of the words good in comparison with the word excellent shows your own thoughts on the matter. I am sorry that the Maelstrom isn't the poor man's Mach that so many people want the Tempest to be. But the matar already have a shield tanking projectile battleship.



Better be excelent shield ship than a mediocre armor and shield one :P


One second there... We fly minmatar, since when have the matari even cared about shield, armour or even hull for that matter. ;) It doesn't matter our hulls are flaming wrecks as long as we can dish out a tonne of damage. :)
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#995 - 2013-05-03 05:15:38 UTC
Hagika wrote:

Hmm well lets see. Battlecruiser sig, battleship tank. Amazing speed and awesome firepower, and with arty its murders most things in comes in contact with, and it can challenge the best of other races.

That is just one of the matar batttleships. The maelstrom is a monster in every sense of the word and matar ships represent the strongest BS fleets in game. Alpha arty fleets.

In fact matar ships are the most common ships in pvp and have enjoyed eve superiority for over 2+ years.

Saying Matar ships dont have any advantages over other races is like saying a fat kid hates being in a candy store. You can smell the bull from miles away.

Matar pilots claiming thier ships are junk are people who want to continue their reign of eve dominance.
To which devs are nerfing shield resist tank bonuses and will make alpha fleets even more dominant.


If you're seriously agreeing with anything Naomi the troll said you've lost any credibility or right to speak further in this thread.

Two years ago you (and the troll) might have been correct but, Minmatar ships have been nerfed either directly (Hurricane, for example) or, in comparison to other racial ships due to a combination of Minmatar ships being unchanged and the other races' ships getting better (Rifter vs other T1 frigates).

Please stop with the nonsense about Minmatar ships being OP. They're not and not by a damned long way. If you want to see something scary and bordering on being OP check the proposed changes to the Armageddon or Hyperion.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#996 - 2013-05-03 10:09:42 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
To mare wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I still think 8% ROF and a 20% web range per level would give it a n unique role. Does not compete with rapier web range and make the tempest the gate camping BS role. Also its able to do soemthign the tornado cannot.

i dont really like the idea of the web bonus plus the 8% rof is a bit odd

on top of that if need a camping BS i think minmatars are totally the wrong race

for me the right direction for the tempest is speed agility and a better damage bonus like i said before 5% rof 7,5% damage (and this shoul apply to all the minmatar double damage bonused ships like the cane and ruppie that at the moment are really ridiculous compared to the blooming of 10% bonuses)



Ok its odd that I can agree. I just do not agree that being a t1 hull is automatically exclusive to web bonus since the geddon got a neut bonus.


I am just tryign to find a role that is not massively outdone by the tornado, maesltrom, megathron, hyperion, armageddon and hurricane, and web was somethign none of them could do

im not saying a web bonus isnt ok on a T1 hull, im just saying that personally i dont like it i would prefer the pest to keep the double dmg bonus and to beef it up a bit because atm its just sad compared to the 10% bonus.
i would like to see
typhoon: missile boat
tempest: fast gunboat
mael is the tanky one
tornado dont have the double neut
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#997 - 2013-05-03 11:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Pattern Clarc
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

And can be made into an excelent shield ship.


And there is the gist of it, the main agenda for the 6 mids slot push is to make an excellent shield ship nothing more or less. And while having the 6th midslot might allow for some colorful gimmicks on an armor tank none of them really shine. Even by your own use of the words good in comparison with the word excellent shows your own thoughts on the matter. I am sorry that the Maelstrom isn't the poor man's Mach that so many people want the Tempest to be. But the matar already have a shield tanking projectile battleship.



Better be excelent shield ship than a mediocre armor and shield one :P


One second there... We fly minmatar, since when have the matari even cared about shield, armour or even hull for that matter. ;) It doesn't matter our hulls are flaming wrecks as long as we can dish out a tonne of damage. :)

I think your confusing minmatar with gallente.

Minimatar have always been about mid range attrition, utilising oversized plates or shield extenders and grinding down opponents unable to run away and hit back, and running away from everything else.

In Battleship land, over sized plates have never existed, and until the changes to projectiles, royally sucked. The hulls still kind of need work, especially Maelstrom and Tempest, although the Maelstrom is barely still clinging on to relevancy by lieu of the fact it is still the best 1400 artillery platform.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#998 - 2013-05-03 14:52:53 UTC
To mare wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
To mare wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I still think 8% ROF and a 20% web range per level would give it a n unique role. Does not compete with rapier web range and make the tempest the gate camping BS role. Also its able to do soemthign the tornado cannot.

i dont really like the idea of the web bonus plus the 8% rof is a bit odd

on top of that if need a camping BS i think minmatars are totally the wrong race

for me the right direction for the tempest is speed agility and a better damage bonus like i said before 5% rof 7,5% damage (and this shoul apply to all the minmatar double damage bonused ships like the cane and ruppie that at the moment are really ridiculous compared to the blooming of 10% bonuses)



Ok its odd that I can agree. I just do not agree that being a t1 hull is automatically exclusive to web bonus since the geddon got a neut bonus.


I am just tryign to find a role that is not massively outdone by the tornado, maesltrom, megathron, hyperion, armageddon and hurricane, and web was somethign none of them could do

im not saying a web bonus isnt ok on a T1 hull, im just saying that personally i dont like it i would prefer the pest to keep the double dmg bonus and to beef it up a bit because atm its just sad compared to the 10% bonus.
i would like to see
typhoon: missile boat
tempest: fast gunboat
mael is the tanky one
tornado dont have the double neut



Double neut not even close to payss off all the disadvantages the tempest have. And now the neutralizer role is armageddon place. No one will ask you anymore to bring a tempest because we need neutralziers alongside some moderate firepower. Armageddon does it way better now.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#999 - 2013-05-03 15:20:11 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Double neut not even close to payss off all the disadvantages the tempest have. And now the neutralizer role is armageddon place. No one will ask you anymore to bring a tempest because we need neutralziers alongside some moderate firepower. Armageddon does it way better now.

Dominix already did it better then. If the Armageddon is a threat to the Tempest, then the Dominix was already overshadowing it.
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1000 - 2013-05-03 15:41:54 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Double neut not even close to payss off all the disadvantages the tempest have. And now the neutralizer role is armageddon place. No one will ask you anymore to bring a tempest because we need neutralziers alongside some moderate firepower. Armageddon does it way better now.

Dominix already did it better then. If the Armageddon is a threat to the Tempest, then the Dominix was already overshadowing it.

And, as I've shown, the new Megathron, with 5 turrets +2 neuts will do just as good. Lol

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction