Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The point isn't to make an OMGWTFBBQ ship with perfect bonuses. Tracking on high alpha ships should be poor, or else they'd be even more broken then they are now, fall-off has way better synergy with kiting anyway and provides a range option for fleet fit artilery that doesn't completely overshadow the tornado or maelstrom with for example, almost 10 guns of alpha!!

And I still don't think you understand the difference between a 7/6/6 tempest or mealstrom.

And no, I posted an alternative with similar bonuses suggested by someone else a few pages ago.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2885041#post2885041

There is a big difference between making a omgwtfpwn ship, and making a ship which is conceptually flawed and has little use. With your proposal you are cutting the edge of making the ship useless due to a conceptually flawed design. With a ship which is a little too powerful but has a sound concept you can easily tweak it, which is what you are failing to realise here.

I proposed the Tempest above and edged on the side of making it a little strong, then that way it can be bought back down. I could have done the opposite and edged on making it a little weak, but then people like you would also probably complain that it is too weak without actually looking at the bigger picture and focusing on the concept.

If you really think the extra high slot is useless then why not go for another low slot instead of a mid. I don't understand why you are fixed on making the ship a shield tanker when it is far more logical to make it an armour tanker. This has been discussed way back in the thread, and in a way this thread is going circular with the same arguments being repeated now.

Your second proposal is a little better although I still prefer CCP's Rise's current proposal to be honest. Your proposal is much weaker and you have nerfed it to the point of almost uselessness in my opinion. That could be tweaked, although I inherently disagree with trading the high for another mid anyway and focusing on the shield. If you focus on the armour then I would have much more time for it.

The big issue with both your proposals is I just don't see any overall concept. It seems like a mish mash of ideas, but as a whole it doesn't gel. I see where you are coming from with wanting to make it a fast and highly agile ship and nerfing the EHP even more, but then at the same time you are prioritising mid slots for a shield tank which would achieve the opposite of this goal.

Sad to see the phoon destroyed like this. I want to clarify something about the phoon though. I do all my pvp in w-space and the typhoon was something of a workhorse for my corp until we bucked up got a neut legion to compliment our T3 oriented gangs. We started out with a torp phoon and 2x heavy neuts plus 1 medium. Being in w-space you rarely see battleships used for anything other than running mass through wormholes to close them so the majority of our targets are flying BC class and smaller ships. Flying with a small gang as we do it's important that each ship carry full tackle so our phoons had MWD, web, scram, and a medium cap booster to keep the neuts running; As you can imagine the lack of TP meant our torps weren't applying much DPS at all to cruiser sized hulls especially T3's which were our most frequent targets.

Seeing as how most of our DPS was coming from the full compliment of heavy drones while facing cruisers we decided to switch the torps out for autocannons and then a real beast was born, sure they don't have the giant paper DPS that the torps touted but they made up for it in applied DPS vs. anything smaller than a battleship considering they were mostly immobile. The phoon as it was and still is today is one of the most if not THE most versatile ships in the game, it offered viable and truly effective fits for torp users and likewise for turret users while allowing ample ways to deal with smaller targets and/or GTFO ability from the sizable drone bay. Hell the ship is the TOP rated battleship on battleclinic and for good reason, it's a monster.

With the proposed changes I can't see using it over a tempest for the small gang role we utilize it in and with the new geddon looking so tasty I can't say any of the minnie BS will ever grace our hangars again. If the phoon really must be primarily a launcher platform then you can't take away it's ability to harm smaller ships by nerfing it's drone bay. Losing a utility slot on top of that is just insult to injury. If you change the navy versions of all these ships you're ruining as well, like the domi and phoon, then you're going to have a lot of disappointed pilots. Anyways that's my two cents.

The problem with your thinking is that don't seem to realise that once you start fitting shield mods along with shield rigs then the small benefit which you were getting from the lower sig has completely gone.

It is already hard enough to make the low signature work for you, prioritising the shield and to be honest we might as well just go back to CCP Rise's original proposal of a large signatured behemoth which everyone hated, but at least it made sense conceptually.

I can see with your proposals you are not even considering the signature which is what was clearly very important to people judging by the outrage from Rise's original proposal and that is why I disagree with them.

The niche I can see you are perhaps trying to get it is basically making the ship a fast sniping ship, because that is all it will be good for. And it will only be moderatley better, if any better at all than a tier 3 BC, which will still outperform it in speed, agility, lock time, cost, alpha and damage. So basically all the areas which count.

This is where you misunderstand. Its not that I think a high slot is better than a mid slot. It is that adding a midslot and it would be inefficient to fit the ship any other way than shield. You are basically pigeon holing the ship into the kiting role, which it will be outperformed in most areas by a tier 3 BC.

Keep the high slot and buff the ship in other areas to compensate is what I am saying. That way if you want your kiting ship you can still have it, 5 mid slots is enough for a decent enough shield tank and a prop mod already. If you want an auto fit then you can fit it with armour tank, two neuts, and gain some benefit from the lower sig i.e. how the old hurricane used to be flown which everyone loved.

More pages of debate and still no comment from CCP Rise as to what's going on...

A little official communication from the balance team would be greatly appreciated!

Wait, first i'm pigeon holing the ship as a shield tanker only, and now it's overpowered for armour tanking?

AND THEN, you turned the Tempest into an insane Artillery ship that completely overshadows the Maelstrom and in the main way it's used (FLEETS!) and the Tornado and you tell me that I'm the one who's overwriting roles?

Your completely all over the map.

Again, you clearly didn't understand what I said previously. Do you really think the flimsy hull will overshadow the maelstrom as the choice for serious fleets?