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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#81 - 2013-04-08 16:20:04 UTC
The Armageddon change sh!ts on the Dominix. To much overlap. The Hyperion is fine and will work. However, you can remove 1 turret hardpoint to keep 5 mid slots.

The Dominix is in bad shape. The Myrmidon has the same issue because of the Prophecy.


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Big Forehead
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-04-08 16:22:21 UTC
omg pls no.

HYPERION.

It.

Needs.

5.

Mids.

Kil2 ffs you realize that the hyperion is literally only viable now because it can double cap injecter + scram web + MJD right? You literally just nerfed it, not buffed it. IT DOESNT HAVE A TRACKING BONUS, ITS NOT A VINDICATOR.

>mfw this hyperion change. Jesus, just change it back, it's going to be worse now.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#83 - 2013-04-08 16:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
CCP Rise wrote:
I think its interesting how a lot of people feel the hyperion NEEDS 5 mids to be able to run an active tank - and at the same time a lot of people seem to think the megathron NEEDS its 7 lows back. .


Well I don't fly the Hyperion but if I was to guess, they active tank it and use cap injectors *smirks* while people like me buffer tank the mega with a sprinkle of damage mods. What I find interesting is this big push by CCP to have gallente ships shield tank instead of fixing armor tanking.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-04-08 16:24:53 UTC
Roime wrote:
These suggested changes would destroy all Gallente battleships.

Hype - it requires two cap boosters and a tracking comp, if the armor reppers are left in their dire state. Alternatively you could just buff the rep bonus to 10%, so triple repping wouldn't be the only option.

Mega - why would anyone shield tank an armor battleship? Speed is irrelevant when you fly battleships (that are not Machs). Currently Mega can fit a proper armor tank and even a damage mod.

Domi - there is absolutely no need to change the bonuses. Simple EHP and fitting buff is all the ship needs. Please focus instead on fixing the drone interface, mechanics and AI as stated in "Back to the balancing future" devblog.


Hype - does need more work on fittings and cap , but the main issue besides that is armour repping is still in an early stage and not good enough yet same as brutix really.

Mega - the talos is still a better option here for shield dps ships again part of the issue is ABC's dps is too good with its projection especially for a T1 ship they should become T2 Bc's and nerf their dps.
Mega needs a much bigger buff to its speed and agility for shield tanking it to be worth it over armour tank.

Domi- i disagree here its dps was too good with split bonuses although heavy drones are severely lacking atm and the range issues with sentries needs fixing.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Kami3k
The Lucky Bible Company
#85 - 2013-04-08 16:26:29 UTC
Is this suppose to be a late April fool's joke?

Nearly all of the changes seem like a nerf to the ships....
Elendar
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#86 - 2013-04-08 16:27:27 UTC
These changes mean that Gal have no standard fleet bs, that any pilot who trains for gal bs will have no shiptype they can bring to either shield or amour bs fleets.

The domi looks nasty but can only be used in drone dedicated fleets.

The hyp is far too weak compared to other armour bs with only one useful fleet bonus to be used (look at the hyp compared to the apoc/abbadon for example, there is no range in which an amarr bs cannot outperform this ship in any sort of gang).

The mega has too few slots now to fit either shield or armor fleets with any sort of comparable tank so will get primaried first every time as a weak link.

Disappointing changes sirs.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-04-08 16:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
Askulf Joringer wrote:
ummm, dual, rep tank on hybe does not work w/o 2x cap injectors... Unless you reduce the cap consumption of large armor reppers these changes are a significant nerf... What should have been done is the loss of a turret and high slot and the addition of a low slot. The damage bonus should then be changed to a ROF bonus and the graphical orientation of the turrets on the hype should be moved to different spots on the hull so 7 Turrets looks "symmetrical"...


The changes to the mega are reasonable... However I did not really see anything wrong with the ship in the first place. The lack of it's use in fleets has far more to do with the inability of BS to mitigate damage on the large scale (large sig, t1 resistances) and far less to do with it being immobile. The mega has been a staple of small scale close range pvp for years... Again I see no reason to change this.


Dominix? WTF are you thinking kill2. You have simply gutted the ship... The removal of the Hybrid bonus has pigeonholed the ship heavily... Before these changes it could gank with the best of them, or be used as a RR/Nuet Cheese Ball. These changes essentially remove the ability for this ship to gank at the potential it use it. In conclusion, Deleted these stupid changes to the ship and leave it alone, it's been working fine for years.


In conclusion? Step away from the Gallente BS, and move to a Balance project that ACTUALLY needs some attention. Oh you know, like Command Ships and t3s or something? ******* Christ....


The problem with a ROF bonus to the Hype would be yet even more cap consumption, not good. The Hype needs some serious fitting space added to it. If CCP wants to make active armor repping viable for it, which means then its sole purpose is for solo/small gang work then the boat needs to be a bit more uber than a normal BS. The ship needs every bit of those mids. It has to have some ability of dealing with a wide range of targets as a solo boat. The real answer, I agree is that one mid slot cap booster should be enough to run the active tank on this boat. You certainly have to dedicate vastly more slots for tank to active armor than active shield. Reduce cap requirement massively for active tanking then maybe this would work but that won't happen. Anyways, whenever you see a Hyperion, now just undock an Armageddon and rofl stomp it.


The Domi should have been the big brother of the vexor, which no one complains about. Navy Domi could have had all these added drone bonuses. But whatever...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#88 - 2013-04-08 16:29:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think its interesting how a lot of people feel the hyperion NEEDS 5 mids to be able to run an active tank - and at the same time a lot of people seem to think the megathron NEEDS its 7 lows back. And along with this, why do you need 5 mids to fit 2 cap injectors? I can see some solo pilots having a more difficult time staying cap stable while running enough tackle, but this is a common problem for battleships and it seems weird that the Hyperion would be exempt.

As far as the dominix and its old unpredictability, I expect that to be completely preserved. It won't be capable of the highest damage numbers of any battleship now, but it can still fit blasters across the top and run mag stabs along with drone damage amps and heavy drones.


Mids:

prop (it's a blaster boat)
scram
web/TC
cap booster
cap booster

= 5

Now if the armor reppers weren't so horribly inefficient, you wouldn't have to triple rep the Hype, and could do with just one cap booster.

.
Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-04-08 16:29:19 UTC
How I would do it:

Mega: 8 / 5 / 6 with 8 turrets and 100/75 drone bay/bandwidth
Hyperion: 7 / 5 / 7 with 7 turrets and 150/125 drone bay/bandwidth
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2013-04-08 16:29:22 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think its interesting how a lot of people feel the hyperion NEEDS 5 mids to be able to run an active tank - and at the same time a lot of people seem to think the megathron NEEDS its 7 lows back. And along with this, why do you need 5 mids to fit 2 cap injectors? I can see some solo pilots having a more difficult time staying cap stable while running enough tackle, but this is a common problem for battleships and it seems weird that the Hyperion would be exempt.

As far as the dominix and its old unpredictability, I expect that to be completely preserved. It won't be capable of the highest damage numbers of any battleship now, but it can still fit blasters across the top and run mag stabs along with drone damage amps and heavy drones.


There is no Feeling of need that the Hyperion needs 5 mids to run a dual rep tank, it's essentially commonly accepted knowledge that it does. Go ahead and try it kill2, then come back and tell me you can run your dual rep tank just fine with a single cap injector.

With the currently proposed slot layout you're going to be dropping a cap injector OR a web/scram. No cap injector means your staying power is moot, no web and web/scram means you're worthless as a blaster ship. As for the retort about "why should the hype be any different than other bs when it comes to solo capability". Well the reason it should be different is because that's all it's ******* good at, with these proposed changes it went from having a niche, to just being bad.... Like come on dude, you were a pro pvper, I think you should know that.

As stated before, the proper changes to hype would have been the removal of a highslot and turret, the change of damage to ROF (this one may not be needed), and the addition of a low slot.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#91 - 2013-04-08 16:30:54 UTC
Hyperion losing a mid? But doesn't it require 15 heavy cap boosters to keep 1 rep going?

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

chuckfinleyrocks
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-04-08 16:31:47 UTC
Just get it over with and nerf all the ships, so you get what you really want, ships being blown up more so less money spent on GTCs. Or maybe you want every to just mine, since those are the only ships that dont get crapped on. STAR CITIZEN, SAVE SPACE GAMING!!!
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#93 - 2013-04-08 16:32:07 UTC
i prefer the 5 mid mega
but i'd prefer a 8 turret mega even more

the hyperion could lose a turret and a high to keep 5 mids and gain a low, allowing it to keep the scram web double injector prop setup while also buffing its tank or dps in the form of an extra magstab / enam. the lost turret can be made up for in drone bandwith going to 125

as for the domi, that second drone bonus is too niche for a tech 1 ship i think. if it was me i'd set it's bandwith to 175 and having a +1 drone per level bonus. 10 mediums/light or 7 heavies might b cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-04-08 16:32:41 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I think its interesting how a lot of people feel the hyperion NEEDS 5 mids to be able to run an active tank - and at the same time a lot of people seem to think the megathron NEEDS its 7 lows back. And along with this, why do you need 5 mids to fit 2 cap injectors? I can see some solo pilots having a more difficult time staying cap stable while running enough tackle, but this is a common problem for battleships and it seems weird that the Hyperion would be exempt.

As far as the dominix and its old unpredictability, I expect that to be completely preserved. It won't be capable of the highest damage numbers of any battleship now, but it can still fit blasters across the top and run mag stabs along with drone damage amps and heavy drones.



Forget all the number crunching for a minute.

What should the Hyperion be used for?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#95 - 2013-04-08 16:33:45 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
As far as the dominix and its old unpredictability, I expect that to be completely preserved. It won't be capable of the highest damage numbers of any battleship now, but it can still fit blasters across the top and run mag stabs along with drone damage amps and heavy drones.


Except that nobody with any sense will fit guns that are both hard to fit and unbonused. If it gets any guns it'll get popguns, or ACs as they're known.

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#96 - 2013-04-08 16:35:20 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I think its interesting how a lot of people feel the hyperion NEEDS 5 mids to be able to run an active tank - and at the same time a lot of people seem to think the megathron NEEDS its 7 lows back. And along with this, why do you need 5 mids to fit 2 cap injectors? I can see some solo pilots having a more difficult time staying cap stable while running enough tackle, but this is a common problem for battleships and it seems weird that the Hyperion would be exempt.

As far as the dominix and its old unpredictability, I expect that to be completely preserved. It won't be capable of the highest damage numbers of any battleship now, but it can still fit blasters across the top and run mag stabs along with drone damage amps and heavy drones.



Forget all the number crunching for a minute.

What should the Hyperion be used for?


Good question. What should the Maelstrom be used for? From what I remember the Tempest was suppose to be the Artillery platform. Only the Abaddon and Rokh seem to make sense as a mainline ship.


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
mkint
#97 - 2013-04-08 16:38:20 UTC
thank god I don't have any use for t1 bs any more. down from 3 barely better than mediocre choices to 3 bad choices. whelp, gallente is dead. time to find something else to do.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#98 - 2013-04-08 16:39:11 UTC
Mariner6 wrote:
And to be honest, I'm having a hard time figuring out why I would fly a domi over the neuting beast that will be the Geddon.
I guess that's fine, because the same question has been answered wrt Myrm versus Prophecy. (Nobody flies Myrms, everybody flies Prophecy)
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#99 - 2013-04-08 16:40:16 UTC
Ask yourself "Can this hyperion take on an abbadon, mael, or Rokh fleet?"

I think the answer is no. Rep bonus is cool and all, but I feel that an 7-8 low new bonus mega could do it. This hyperion can't. I think the Mega should be the Combat while the hyperion should be the attack. No one in their right mind is going to take out a hype fleet utilizing the rep bonus to a SOV fight. Rep bonus in fleets won't let you hold the field where Logi/triage is king. At least as an attack BS there would be more incentive to play around with it.

I appreciate what you are doing, trying new things is great. I just don't see it working the that you want it to.
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-04-08 16:41:54 UTC
Not at all pleased with the changes to my favorite races battleships, especially the Megathron, I don't want to sound overly pessimistic but large fleets and Gallente seem never to intersect unless I spend way too much money on a ship, and after these changes it isn't easier.