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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1881 - 2013-04-25 16:05:24 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
And do not dare to bring PVE into a balance discussion.

Oh, how dare you try to blush us?...
I alredy suggested a variant, that make all 3 ships suitable for both PvP and PvE. In contrast to OP's clueless shuffle of already established ship roles.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1882 - 2013-04-25 16:09:24 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You fail to realize

You fail to realize, that difference of 3% in PvE means that you will have 3% less chance to cover your losses, making your PvP activity irrelevant, because you can't attend to it. You just don't have money for it.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#1883 - 2013-04-25 16:55:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
And do not dare to bring PVE into a balance discussion. The game is focused on PVP and balance is paramaunt on PVP, on PVE balance is less than secondary.. its just a frivolity !


Kagura Nikon wrote:

You fail to realize what I meant. Of course PVE need to exist. But if you loose 3% on your PVE capability.. you are just loosing a few million isk per hour. If a PVP ship looses 3% of its capabilit.. that may be the difference between survival and catastrofic failure.. between being an useful ship and useless ship.

That is why I say balance for PVE is a frivolity. Balance should always worry FIRST on PVP, because there the consequences are amplified.


If you would read what you say yourself you could perhaps understand why you are taken as ravaging lunatic. You have a point but you bring it with such extreme I cannot support it.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1884 - 2013-04-25 17:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
This is the closest I've come to a workable fleet tachyon Apoc:

[NEW Apocalypse, Tachypoc import 1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Reactor Control Unit II

100MN Microwarpdrive II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
NEW Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Vespa EC-600 x5
Warrior II x5


Only 84k EHP. ******* pathetic. There's pretty much no way I can think of to put any more tank on this thing. It's ridiculously weak. So I've managed to alleviate the cap issues, but still this thing is useless because the Maelstrom and Rokh would just rip it to shreds.



CCP, how the **** can you say that you're happy with the balance of these ships when two races have the ability to fit their largest LR weapons without making any concessions on fittings while having a very respectable tank, and the Apoc is unable to do this without its tank being worse than many battlecruisers, after fitting an RCU II?

inb4 it's another week at least before CCP Rise or CCP Fozzie reply to this thread.

I'm seriously getting fed up with this rebalancing pass. You previously seemed to know what you were doing, and then all of a sudden you start going off in every direction with these changes. What's worse is that you reply a handful of times after a week without addressing any points made in this thread except for some minor **** that nobody cares about and think you're golden.


The Apocalypse needs ~50 more CPU and 400 more PG. That way I'd still need the RCU II even with perfect fitting skills, but I'd be able to fit a tank that's more like a battleship than a battlecruiser.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#1885 - 2013-04-25 17:50:22 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
So quick BS line balance roundup.

Well attack was never going to be their specialty really .. dual plated apoc (laughs) so nippy... but then mega has the same problem in the gallente lineup simply didn't follow the thorax example ... but hey Hyperion has good speed now.


Well Mega kinda did follow Thorax example, unlike Armageddon that became completely different. And this is after CCP stated in their dev blogs that they are happy with Armageddon and like to rebalance other ships based on his example.

In particular one of them is this, source:
Quote:
The Omen must be one of the most frustrating ships to fit so we are going to look at it. Like CCP Guard, it should be a mean miniaturized version of the Armageddon, not a public target for bad-taste midget tossing jokes.


Ou, and btw Mega turn out to be quite ok, imho of course. So I don't get why Rise did, what he did to Geddon. If they wanted to reward drone users why they didn't do laser/drone bonus boat with 8 lows. Did he really considered that new GedDomi can outshine 2 already existing ships that are quite balanced, but I already said all this in my previous post.

One more thing, though. CCP Rise answered one of my questions, about what when new battleship will be introduced.
What I got from his answer was this:
We are balancing what we have, without any future vision or consideration. And that what really scared me the most. It's like they are running at full speed with scissors in their hands, what will happen when they fall or cross the finish line and hit the breaks. Well, they will think about it when that thing will actually happen and will lie around on their back with bloody knee and scissors sticking out of it.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Pelea Ming wrote:

To reiterate his point for all the tl;dr out there... "If your going to do something, do it right the first time, take pride in your work, and don't make excuses to procrastinate over it."

If you are of a mind to think you can balance a complex system right the first time and never have to later make changes based on things you find out along the way, you probably shouldn't be balancing complex systems.

If someone is saying that you shouldn't try to balance complex systems right even on your first try, then maybe , just maybe this someone and I'm not saying that this someone is you in particular, probably shouldn't say how things should be balanced and/or that other people shouldn't try to do it right the first time. I'm just saying. Blink
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1886 - 2013-04-25 18:05:01 UTC
so the armaggedon just lost all use as a PVE ship? lovelyEvil NOT

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Provence Tristram
Doomheim
#1887 - 2013-04-25 18:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Provence Tristram
Disgusted with the changes to the Armageddon. This is *the* classic Amarr gunship, and it's forced to become a neut-drone hull? The Apoc is the boat that actually looks like a drone ship -- not the friggin' Geddon.

Frankly, once these changes go live, I think I'm done. The Geddon was flawed, yes, but this reversal on what is easily my favorite ship may be enough for me to hang things up. I do not want to fly it in its new incarnation (no, make that: I will not fly it in its new incarnation), and I will not switch to an Apoc/Abad.

Also, there's this: what ever happened to, if someone wanted to specialize in drones, they went Gallente? I did not train Amarr to sail drone ships! I trained Amarr to sail the hulls that I like AND SHOOT LASERS!

Nariya Kentaya wrote:
I just dont understand CCP's NEED to make every race have "something for everyone", Amarr are supposed to eb ALL ABOUT lasers and huge armor tanks, with occasional drones, it makes no sense for one of their main battle hulls at the battleship level to be a droneboat. at the most they could have a battlecruiser for drone support, but thats it, since its a SECONDARY weapon-type. drones are the gallente's thing, i dont see a reason for any other race to have drone BATTLESHIPS.

People should choose which race to fly based on WHAT they want to fly, not just go "herpderp, guess ill train whatever and just pick the ship thats been awkwardly assigned with the role i prefer, even though it has no lore-basis for existing".

^ That, a bazillion times over. I SAY AGAIN: I DID NOT TRAIN AMARR TO SAIL DRONE SHIPS! I TRAINED AMARR TO SAIL THE HULLS THAT I LIKE AND SHOOT LASERS!

I get the distinct and powerful sensation that the majority of players who are pleased with these changes do not actually sail Amarr currently, but are now looking forward to slipping from Gallente into Amarr hulls and acting like nothing ever changed. Those of us who picked Amarr picked the race because we liked what it was -- because that was our 'flavor' of gaming. Nobody actively flying these ships was asking you to strip them over everything they currently are. The ONLY people pleased by these changes are those who want to have their cake and eat it to -- a sorry little village populated, apparently, by the current development team.

If you want to add ships, then by God, add ships. Why not add a fourth T1 BS to each race if you want to go off-the-wall bonkers? Why tear the thing away from those of us who love it? The ships are everything in this game -- you've made that so clear. And when you take a beloved ship and torch it; strip it of everything it once was, do you expect us just to sit there and smile dully back at you?

Thanks for nothing CCP -- you blew it! Again!
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1888 - 2013-04-25 18:24:50 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
I think, I've found something, that MAY work.

Armageddon
Attack BS, 7/4/8, 6T, 50/75 (50/100 ?) drones
7% RoF increase
5% MWD cap penalty reduction
Should both help mobility, help capacitor just a bit, and to not work as power creep.
You hardly do more damage with increased RoF, more DPS - yes, but you'll have to sacrifice mobility and/or tank to consistently provide that much DPS. Which, IMO, balancing one against another.
Why 7%, and not 7.5%? 7.5% seems WAY too much for me, though you get more capacitor spent with each 0.1% RoF increase, which could balance it roughly equal.
With drones - the idea is to have ability to sport a flight of meds, while having at least some backup/variety up her sleeve, to help with the brawl.
Some tech ****: http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3876/armageddon2013.png (Lasers cap usage changes taken into account)
Notice, how boring the damage bonus looks.

Apocalypse
Combat BS, 8/3/7, 8T
10% optimal bonus
5% damage bonus
Balance PG around 6 tachyons or full rack of megabeams.
Then 7 lows will go for the preferered mix of tank, gank, and stat mods.
Though, Scorch issue needs to be resolved first. It's a shame, that pulse crystal takes on the work of beams in sniping.

Abaddon
Combat BS, 8/4/6, 8T, 6L, 125/XXX drones
Slightly better capacitor regen, than of the previous two.
+10% to drone damage, hit points and mining yield per level
+4% to armor resistances per level
I think, this one speaks for herself. But just in case you didn't noticed, you may still use lasers (though, unbonused), or you may prefer to fit launchers and have a few utility slots for cap games. Yes, indirectly, it is the same cap warfare, that has been proposed for Armageddon before, but it doesn't step on Bhallgorn toes, and maintain the general Amarr line in spirit.


I personally, think that this is a much better proposal.

CCP Rise you are not following CCP's promise of listening to the player's feedback. Neither are you acting in the best interests of this community. If the expansion you proposed is released, I propose that all of us refuse to log in for a month except adjust skill-queues. I understand some people may agree with the strike but not be able to join. I also propose that we form both a topic and petitions for CCP Rise to be fired.
Mr Hyde113
#1889 - 2013-04-25 18:49:43 UTC
CCP Rise's latest sumg responses on page 90 are the last straw for me. You have 90+ pages of feedback, most of it negative, from new and old pilots alike telling you that these changes are wrong. Your response to that is..."Well i'm going to ignore all of that becuase I think my changes are awesome and no amount of community outrage will change that."

Okay cool. Well since you won't listen to feedback, I have no reason to continue paying for this game when you have systematically ruined every ship I love.

I have just cancelled all 4 of my accounts. After 8+ years in this game, its sad to see you cause so much damage in one "Balance Pass" and have such a smug attitude while your customers rage.


o7 - Enjoy Winmatards-Online
Provence Tristram
Doomheim
#1890 - 2013-04-25 18:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Provence Tristram
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
CCP Rise's latest sumg responses on page 90 are the last straw for me. You have 90+ pages of feedback, most of it negative, from new and old pilots alike telling you that these changes are wrong. Your response to that is..."Well i'm going to ignore all of that becuase I think my changes are awesome and no amount of community outrage will change that."

Okay cool. Well since you won't listen to feedback, I have no reason to continue paying for this game when you have systematically ruined every ship I love.

I have just cancelled all 4 of my accounts. After 8+ years in this game, its sad to see you cause so much damage in one "Balance Pass" and have such a smug attitude while your customers rage.


o7 - Enjoy Winmatards-Online


Yes, there's something seriously wrong here. It's amazing that the thread was built on the pretense of 'we're looking for feedback,' but when that feedback is overwhelmingly critical, it's summarily ignored. I really, really think that CCP Rise needs to be replaced. Surely -- surely -- there is someone else who can do this job. This is a person who needs to find a new career.

I mean, good lord, with regards to the Armageddon, was any thought EVER given to the lore? To the people who currently sail this ship? To the ones who have been sailing it for ALMOST A DECADE? I'm certain the answer is no, because CCP and Rise do not care about those people. They only care about turning EVE into a vanilla wasteland, where every race sails nigh-identical ships. That makes Rise's job quite easy -- when there's a mirror boat in every race, balancing becomes simplistic. I see your game, buddy -- it's laughably transparent.

Quote:
I also propose that we form both a topic and petitions for CCP Rise to be fired.

Seconded. Of course, it would be deleted right away. Heaven forbid an incompetent lose his job. We wouldn't want that!

Account cancelled.
Zytemos
Nemesis Logistics
Goonswarm Federation
#1891 - 2013-04-25 19:20:02 UTC
Is it just me or are they going to make the Amarr more unpopularly as it already is.

Abaddon

Hmm well i thougt that CCP wouldn´t change much on that. By changing the Resist bonus from 5 to 4 is a big step.... don´t like it.

Apocalypse:
Not sure why u did that on the Apoc, but to me it looks like you are nerfing the tank, CCP changed the weapon cap need of the Large energie turrets but still each Amarr ship has a cap problem and the Apoc was the only one who doesn´t had it. And why a tracking bonus ?? I mean comeone the Amarr Large Beam weapons already have the best tracking. Why u buff something that already is good enough?

BAD IDEAR

Armageddon

A drone boat .... srsly ?? My feelings are Mixed for this ship i like the Neut/Vamp bonus but dislike the Drone bonus. In Mission it is good (yes there are some people using drones boats in Mission dont ask me why i dont understand them either)but in PVP ? Ok the Neut/Vampire... drones in PVP are well not as good as Turret´s. And u need just to Focus the drones and the Ship has lost his DPS (hmm 2 Armageddons VS 2 other BS fittet whit Smartbombs have fun ^^). In a fight where drones are involved you can´t just warp of and warp in. Cause your drones need to be picked up each time and that takes time, time I don´t have so need to abdon drones means loosing firepower, and needing of resupplying. I can understand why u buffed his EHP cause it WILL neeed it.

Mission GOOD | PvP BAAAD


Over all ... you are killing Amarr, make one think more unpopularly as it already is. Next time i ask a pilot "why are u flying Amarr?" i´m already getting the answer "Cause they look good and they do nice..." the change will be "Cause they look good but in all they are crap"

Srsly i´m already saying to new EvE players don´t skill Amarr, now i need to force them not to skill it cause they are bad. Besides the good looking ships and some exception(Like the Abaddon).

RIP Amarr

Ps: Sry for my bad english, and that is what I think, if i mad
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#1892 - 2013-04-25 19:38:26 UTC
Provence Tristram wrote:
Disgusted with the changes to the Armageddon. This is *the* classic Amarr gunship, and it's forced to become a neut-drone hull? The Apoc is the boat that actually looks like a drone ship -- not the friggin' Geddon.


I had the same thought of apoc hull. All those holes in the armor actually make it look like civilian ship over combat one..
Provence Tristram
Doomheim
#1893 - 2013-04-25 19:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Provence Tristram
Theia Matova wrote:
Provence Tristram wrote:
Disgusted with the changes to the Armageddon. This is *the* classic Amarr gunship, and it's forced to become a neut-drone hull? The Apoc is the boat that actually looks like a drone ship -- not the friggin' Geddon.


I had the same thought of apoc hull. All those holes in the armor actually make it look like civilian ship over combat one..



Yup. I've never been a fan of the Apoc's hull, but I don't begrudge the people who like it, either. However, it just does not look like a gunship. So far, those hulls that have been converted to drone boats (such as in the Battlecruiser tree) have -- to me -- seemed like the most plausible ships to be drone carriers. Stupid changes as a whole aside, the wrong hull was chosen to be the gunship. IMO, if anything, either the Abaddon or the Apoc look more like drone boats then the Geddon. I don't think it's even close.

Sigh.

Honestly, the one thing that Rise's reponses have reminded me the most of are the games played by the WoW development team, sad as that is. Blizzard's employees are the absolute masters of replying only to softball or lighthearted quieries. When confronted by legitimate, hardcore suggestions or serious criticism; when a thread turns decidedly against their designs, they vanish. If they return, a few more 'easy ones' are fielded, then *POOF*, off they go again. Those same tactics are shamelessly on display in this thread.

Where, oh where, Rise is even the slightest acknowledgement that you might not be all-knowing? I haven't seen it. Not once.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1894 - 2013-04-25 19:55:20 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
And do not dare to bring PVE into a balance discussion. The game is focused on PVP and balance is paramaunt on PVP, on PVE balance is less than secondary.. its just a frivolity !


Kagura Nikon wrote:

You fail to realize what I meant. Of course PVE need to exist. But if you loose 3% on your PVE capability.. you are just loosing a few million isk per hour. If a PVP ship looses 3% of its capabilit.. that may be the difference between survival and catastrofic failure.. between being an useful ship and useless ship.

That is why I say balance for PVE is a frivolity. Balance should always worry FIRST on PVP, because there the consequences are amplified.


If you would read what you say yourself you could perhaps understand why you are taken as ravaging lunatic. You have a point but you bring it with such extreme I cannot support it.



Truth is independent of how its expressed. I am not here to make bunny happy friends. I am here to point why balance is MUCH MUCH more important on PVP than on PVE.

And answering to the other guy. NO if your PVE ship is 3% inferior you no not have 3% less chance to anything. Because You ALWAYS (or very very nearly always) succeed in PVE, you only take more or less time. PVP have real failure, and taht is why balance is much more critical there. You cannot unbalance a ship to PVP because it gets better for PVE.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1895 - 2013-04-25 20:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Pelea Ming wrote:

To reiterate his point for all the tl;dr out there... "If your going to do something, do it right the first time, take pride in your work, and don't make excuses to procrastinate over it."

If you are of a mind to think you can balance a complex system right the first time and never have to later make changes based on things you find out along the way, you probably shouldn't be balancing complex systems.

If someone is saying that you shouldn't try to balance complex systems right even on your first try, then maybe , just maybe this someone and I'm not saying that this someone is you in particular, probably shouldn't say how things should be balanced and/or that other people shouldn't try to do it right the first time. I'm just saying. Blink

Can you really expect that? I would think they made their statements of balance being a continuous process for a reason. Obviously one does ones best, but clearly the response expects that if one does, there would never be any need to revisit a potentially large portion of that design. That is very short sighted. It's also unrealistic. Or are we really expecting everything to be perfect after the first pass?

Edit: also a bit more relevantly, some of what they are doing is to specifically test waves of changes in isolation to measure specific effects, in which case rushing into a multilevel rebalanced based on this change at the same time ruins any possibility of quantifying the changes effects since they won't be able to be isolated.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#1896 - 2013-04-25 21:06:09 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Truth is independent of how its expressed. I am not here to make bunny happy friends. I am here to point why balance is MUCH MUCH more important on PVP than on PVE.


The truth is that the ships won't ever be in balance in PVP. Ship design is made so that the resistances and are inbalance. And its more of rock-scissor-paper game where amarr is the most predictable one because amarr has zero-zip versatility. T1 hulls spew em-thermal, and suck kinetic explosive. Yes em/thermal damage is more than with other races but we pay the price of being most predictable ship race. So everyone can either flee when they don't feel secure about that setting or when they feel secure they can easily kill you.

If you want PVP balance vote for Amarr ship versatility and fact that Amarr need drones AND launchers not just raw lasers. Amarr also need either buff to native T1 kinetic explosive or easy way to shift native resistances from EM / thermal armor to kinetic explosive because otherwise amarr ships will be always too easy to predict and find the right rock-paper-scissor.

Amarr and most PVP do not mix with current design and it won't change until the design changes.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#1897 - 2013-04-25 21:31:48 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Truth is independent of how its expressed. I am not here to make bunny happy friends. I am here to point why balance is MUCH MUCH more important on PVP than on PVE.


The truth is that the ships won't ever be in balance in PVP. Ship design is made so that the resistances and are inbalance. And its more of rock-scissor-paper game where amarr is the most predictable one because amarr has zero-zip versatility. T1 hulls spew em-thermal, and suck kinetic explosive. Yes em/thermal damage is more than with other races but we pay the price of being most predictable ship race. So everyone can either flee when they don't feel secure about that setting or when they feel secure they can easily kill you.

If you want PVP balance vote for Amarr ship versatility and fact that Amarr need drones AND launchers not just raw lasers. Amarr also need either buff to native T1 kinetic explosive or easy way to shift native resistances from EM / thermal armor to kinetic explosive because otherwise amarr ships will be always too easy to predict and find the right rock-paper-scissor.

Amarr and most PVP do not mix with current design and it won't change until the design changes.


Including to this fact amarr is the only race ship that is vulnerable for every EW type. Yes it true that we are strong against ECM and dampening. But where caldari can be immune to TD and neut. Soon Winmatar can do the same since they gain their first missile boat that even gets bonus to explosive radius. Including to that I would say that Amarr is one of the most vulnerable race for TD at least I get the feeling when I run missions and get TD to hell. Included neut just makes it worse.

If you want PVP superiority fly winmatar, whose guns don't eat energy. Whose damage type is very dynamic. Who can tank either shield or armor, therefor being very unpredictable. You fly against winmatar and you can't ever be sure what you exactly get.

Gallente can get really nut solo dual omni rep fits with nice dps, with drones they gain versatility in damage. I also find that kinetic is the best damage in general since in most fits kinetic happens to be the most weak so blasters eat most of the tanks.

Caldari is a mixed basket tengu is good, also drake. But they lose good big ships. Yet I find shield more flexible in tanking damage types, and the fact that caldari deal pure kientic with missiles or any damage type they wish.

And well Amarr? Cap hog, armor tank hole stuck, laser stuck race that gets worse and worse since our versatily is stripped away. Amarr have hole every corner. Yes lasers make the most damage but I would change that to more versatile damage and tank.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1898 - 2013-04-25 21:50:40 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
And well Amarr? Cap hog, armor tank hole stuck, laser stuck race that gets worse and worse since our versatily is stripped away. Amarr have hole every corner. Yes lasers make the most damage but I would change that to more versatile damage and tank.

So in fact you want a minmatar/caldari/gallente hull (pick the one you like) with a golden hull and its weapons looking like lasers ?

Or is it only another races ships but with amarr racial skills ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1899 - 2013-04-25 21:56:14 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Theia Matova wrote:
And well Amarr? Cap hog, armor tank hole stuck, laser stuck race that gets worse and worse since our versatily is stripped away. Amarr have hole every corner. Yes lasers make the most damage but I would change that to more versatile damage and tank.

So in fact you want a minmatar/caldari/gallente hull (pick the one you like) with a golden hull and its weapons looking like lasers ?

Or is it only another races ships but with amarr racial skills ?


Not at all. But cross training aside, we just don't want to feel like we lost the game at the character select screen.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#1900 - 2013-04-25 21:57:05 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Theia Matova wrote:
And well Amarr? Cap hog, armor tank hole stuck, laser stuck race that gets worse and worse since our versatily is stripped away. Amarr have hole every corner. Yes lasers make the most damage but I would change that to more versatile damage and tank.

So in fact you want a minmatar/caldari/gallente hull (pick the one you like) with a golden hull and its weapons looking like lasers ?

Or is it only another races ships but with amarr racial skills ?


:p do you think I fly amarr in pvp? *laughs*