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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#1741 - 2013-04-22 19:54:37 UTC
SlaughterhouseDb wrote:


Shocked

T...T...TACHYON GATLING LASERS! And they have to roar when they fire, AAAAUUUUUUURRRRUUUUUMMMM.


AAAUURRRUMM?

AURUM?

Aurum?

Shocked

Don't you dare bringing my precious Gatling Tachyons into connection with the NeX or Aurum or anything like thisEvil

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1742 - 2013-04-22 21:36:52 UTC
SlaughterhouseDb wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Jack C Hughes wrote:
for the oversized thing simply compare the number of turrets that Amaar and Minmatar have....


<...blah blah blah reasonable arguments...>

PS: Join my crusade to introduce the M/L Gatlings please, you seem to have a passion for lasers as I have. Just prod the Devs whenever they mention "pulse" or "laser", eventually they'll buckle or in the very least explain why not Big smile


Shocked

T...T...TACHYON GATLING LASERS! And they have to roar when they fire, AAAAUUUUUUURRRRUUUUUMMMM.

ROFL!
Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1743 - 2013-04-23 00:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Crash Lander
Test server Feedback:
I did some PvE tests in the new Apoc but before any any arguments some prefaces are in order
- I consider cap stability a waste. What I consider valid is having just barely enough cap to complete the needed task. For PvE I fit my ships with somewhere between 1:30min-5min of cap depending on the ship/mission/etc.
- I know my missions inside and out
- I have almost perfect skills

With the above in mind: now the feedback on Apoc:
1) It can muddle its way through L4s. Eg: screenshot. (Killing the last NPC with 30% cap and a bit of armor, this is how it should be)

2) This might be a point of contention but it needs more CPU. Not enough CPU to fit standard active tank in lows and a MWD with Pulses.

3) Cap: Yes the energy turret change helps a little bit to remedy the loss of the bonus but this isn't the Apoc of old. You have to babysit that cap. I had to swap a dps related rig to a cap related rig to keep it in the game. This is what I consider the worst aspect of the change.

In-case it isn't clear what I'm trying to say here; I'll re-iterate it differently: Removing the cap bonus is forcing me to swap a rig that was previously free to be anything (DPS/Tracking/Range/Whatever) to a cap rig to compensate. This in an indirect trade of a bonus and probably not the intended effect.
You've given me a fixed bonus (extra tracking) and taken away my choice of a bonus in a rig. This is why cap bonuses (and cap use bonuses on Amarr ships aren't currently as useless as people think)


I won't post my specific fit as to a large degree I consider fits a matter of preference. The only thing I will say is considering my criteria above (not being cap stable), having to still dedicate 2-3 rigs to cap related modules is not something I consider good balance. Slap on a MWD there and things change very quickly.

TLDR, I and probably many of you can manage/adapt/whatever. I don't like repeating this argument but I'll say it anyways it isn't as newbie friendly like it was before. Wether CCP cares or not.... meh, I don't.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#1744 - 2013-04-23 00:26:07 UTC
after some testing on duality I come to the conclution that the geddon is out shadowing the dominix by far too much it needs a role change I think it would work well as a faster more dps less tank laser brawler

the speed increase the apocalypse got in exchange for armor is completely wasted due to the fact it does not have the capacitor to support a propulsion module, it even has to rely on a cap booster to keep its guns going, it could not possibly be cavaleering around with a mwd it would just run out of cap charges too quick to be of any good

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Tasha Saisima
Doomheim
#1745 - 2013-04-23 00:54:31 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
after some testing on duality I come to the conclution that the geddon is out shadowing the dominix by far too much it needs a role change I think it would work well as a faster more dps less tank laser brawler

the speed increase the apocalypse got in exchange for armor is completely wasted due to the fact it does not have the capacitor to support a propulsion module, it even has to rely on a cap booster to keep its guns going, it could not possibly be cavaleering around with a mwd it would just run out of cap charges too quick to be of any good


same thing that happened to the gallente a ways back and got a 30% reduction in cap use for it's guns
Regolis
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1746 - 2013-04-23 01:50:04 UTC
What I'm afraid is going to happen is a promise to "fix" lasers at a later date ... watch them faf around for 6 months and then say "Lasers are fine the way they are" like the last 4 years or so ... Atleast we got a small fix for them .. but I have a feeling thats as far as it's going to go until the "beam laser patch".
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#1747 - 2013-04-23 02:18:38 UTC
Regolis wrote:
What I'm afraid is going to happen is a promise to "fix" lasers at a later date ... watch them faf around for 6 months and then say "Lasers are fine the way they are" like the last 4 years or so ... Atleast we got a small fix for them .. but I have a feeling thats as far as it's going to go until the "beam laser patch".


Yeah, this idea of 'gradually tweaking' is nice in concept, but they are doing massive changes in the near future. I would hope they would give us more than enough boost now, and tweak down at a later date with small nerfs, instead of leaving us nigh useless for six months as they get around to giving us small balancing boosts.

We're looking at a lot of wasted time here if we're not careful.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Asmodai Xodai
#1748 - 2013-04-23 02:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodai Xodai
I know opinions vary, and that's fine. But wouldn't it be useful for the great bulk of us who believe Amarr ships and weapons have serious issues to come together in some kind of grand statement? A manifesto of sorts? Would anyone like to join me in crafting some language?

We, the undersigned, believe in the following principles:

- Amarr is not the red-headed stepchild of this game, and we actively refuse such a label and treatment. Our race will be treated the same as any other race in this game - no better, and no worse.

- Lasers are not hands down better than any other weapon system in the game, requiring far-reaching and severe punishments in order to balance them out. They are just another racial weapon system, and as such merely accel at some things and not at others, just as any other racial weapon system.

- It is not a 'bonus' or a 'reward' to be able to fit our racial weapon system, while all other races are allowed to freely fit their racial weapon system and thus get this bonus 'for free.'

As such, we, the undersigned, demand the following:

- Remove cap use bonuses from our ships, and give us other bonuses, the same as any other race.

- Give us powergrid fitting requirements that are in-line with all other races in the game.

- Give our ships capacitor usage that is in-line with all other races in the game.

- If, after these adjustments, lasers are OP, then by all means adjust lasers.

Signed,

Asmodai Xodai
[others...]

By the way, I think many of the posters here should consider moving to another race. Sticking with one race while it is continually given the shaft by CCP is the same as sticking with the same political party who screws you over and over again. The only way to force change in that situation (or, at least one way) is to go to another party, or stop voting altogether. Well, the same applies here.

Personally, after having played Amarr exclusively from day one, I already made my first battlecruiser a non-Amarr ship, and the first battleship I get will be non-Amarr (already training for it).

In short, start voting with your ship choices. Train up and fly other ships. If Amarr usage statistics plummet, CCP can either accept a three-race game, or do something about it. It will be their choice, but at least you will have made yours.
Regolis
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1749 - 2013-04-23 02:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Regolis
Also voting with my feet. Maybe in 6 months when they take a look a lasers I'll give Amarr another go. Until then I'm moving on to something else for awhile.
Pathogen Ascention
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1750 - 2013-04-23 04:18:25 UTC
*I posted this in the wrong section earlier, my apologies:

I truly wish I had time to test these changes on Duality, but as I don't I've just been reading what others have posted so far. Judging from what's been posted about Amarr, CCP has given us the proverbial "finger." I really only say this because of the absolute lack of response in this thread from CCP reps while there's be so much outcry, theorycrafting, and suggestions. Then we have the actual test reports from a few saying that we, as Amarr pilots, are getting a bad deal here.

Is it really too much to ask to get some inkling of whether we're being listened to? Please, CCP, prove me wrong and restore my faith.

Aside from that rant, back to me pleading for you to stop nerfing ships to the ground. You've gutted the Abaddon by all reports, and that's a tragedy that I hope to not see make it to TQ. There's no good reason to drop resistances at all, and personally I believe that there should be multiple ships per class that retain or even get buffed to a 5% bonus. That being said, the BS class should at least have one ship per race that has the 5% retained. In my very own opinion that I doubt is shared, I think one BS per race should be bumped to 6%. Why? Because it's a BS. Staying power and consistent damage are what these ships are about, and at least one from each race should have the balls to soak damage and put pressure on the enemy (note I said pressure, not ridiculous damage, I'm talking about consistency here), be it in PvE or PvP. Again, that last part is my personal opinion with no math involved for now.

Overall, Amarr is hurting seriously from these changes. Fix the cap/pg enough that we don't devote so many slots to it.

Sorry for the wall of text again, this issue has me a bit heated still, and probably will for a long time to come.

Oh, and the gatling tachs? Sign me up, I wanna hear the roar.
Naso Aya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1751 - 2013-04-23 04:34:17 UTC
Mining Tachyons. They're beams that last for 14 seconds, drilling into enemy ships. And you get minerals at the end of every cycle depending on the damage dealt to the ship.

Double damage to Minmatar.
Ayla Crenshaw
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1752 - 2013-04-23 06:17:01 UTC
Naso Aya wrote:
Mining Tachyons. They're beams that last for 14 seconds, drilling into enemy ships. And you get minerals at the end of every cycle depending on the damage dealt to the ship.

Double damage to Minmatar.


Except you'd only get Scrap Metal from Minmatar ships instead of pure minerals.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1753 - 2013-04-23 06:17:03 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
ROFL!

Are you making light of my honest desire for having a full complement of pulses? *sniff* Cry

Hahahahahaha.
Crazy KSK wrote:
after some testing on duality I come to the conclution that the geddon is out shadowing the dominix by far too much it needs a role change I think it would work well as a faster more dps less tank laser brawler...

I am curious, in what way or where does it overshadow it? It is understandable if you are talking about 0-35km bracket, but beyond that I don't see it as the extra mid and Dominix bonuses/stats ought to make it far surpass the Armageddon farther out.
Pathogen Ascention wrote:
I truly wish I had time to test these changes on Duality, but as I don't I've just been reading what others have posted so far. Judging from what's been posted about Amarr, CCP has given us the proverbial "finger." I really only say this because of the absolute lack of response in this thread from CCP reps while there's be so much outcry, theorycrafting, and suggestions. Then we have the actual test reports from a few saying that we, as Amarr pilots, are getting a bad deal here...

Being Amarr only and having been so since I entered the service of PIE Inc., I would like to say that statement is entirely on your head. On the BS scale we are getting an incredible amount of versatility with three distinct dishes rather than just different flavours, our BC's are set to take over the world and we now (post tiericide) even have cruisers and frigates (not of the Slicing variety) that can compete with others.
Amarr went from having an advantage in T2 cruiser (Guard/Recons/Zeal) and capital sphere only, to being viable in all spheres .. if that is CCP giving me the finger they are welcome to finger me 'til they drop! Smile

Apart from the cap concern, near complete abolishment of racial distinctions, blanket resist decrease (compensation hopefully being discussed) and the one-trick NOmen I am on the whole well satisfied.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1754 - 2013-04-23 07:26:39 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
if that is CCP giving me the finger they are welcome to finger me 'til they drop!


Somewhere, a member of the Ministry of Infernal Affairs has just sat bolt upright growling "HERESY" through rapidly bloodying teeth :P



Still, it will be quicker to construct an actual Harbinger than it will be to get a CCP response to our thread. Methinks they are panicing about a Festival of Fandom, rather than the changes that they have planned.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Nemesis Bosseret
Dysfunctional Nocturnal Rejects
#1755 - 2013-04-23 08:24:27 UTC
HVAC Repairman wrote:
ccp rise you're killing eve online: a bad game

Totally agree........... ive already said it in another post.... Quit screwing up the game please... if u want a mini balagorn go review ur T2 cruisers we already have one called the curse, Two the cap changes to the apoc are kinda idiodic, Amarr is heavily cap dependent due to its use of lasers and if we are active tanking aka solo pvp, or PVE ur kinda screwing us over. The BS are actually good as is, on all counts hyperion is kinda messed up for gallenta because of its lack of tanking ability unless u cap boost the hell outta it and the caldari are pretty rounded on being screwed in the Battleship classes... my thoughs on this.. One strong tank/ one strong damage dealer/ one throw away cheap BS for pvp purposes ie geddon, mega, raven, tempest are ur primary pvp BS and are already in heavy fleet usage....... Apocs, Rokh, hyperion, maelstrom are ur supplemental fleet used for there gun range aka sniping... hyperion not so much.. abaddon is a heavy pvp ship/ pve ship all around.... Domi... with new changes applied to eve are pretty useless.... primary fits are a neuting domi but rarely see them use there drones, scorpion.... falcon on crack...... Phoon... yeah interesting specialized ship that really id leave alone too.... Really the only things that should be looked at or improved is the Hyperion which actually really sucks... the raven needs some love because if ur trying to run missions with it your going to die sooner or later which is kinda sad. give them something a little tougher... besides thoughs two..... yeah... dont touch them
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1756 - 2013-04-23 08:32:24 UTC
Pathogen Ascention wrote:
*I posted this in the wrong section earlier, my apologies:

I truly wish I had time to test these changes on Duality, but as I don't I've just been reading what others have posted so far. Judging from what's been posted about Amarr, CCP has given us the proverbial "finger." I really only say this because of the absolute lack of response in this thread from CCP reps while there's be so much outcry, theorycrafting, and suggestions. Then we have the actual test reports from a few saying that we, as Amarr pilots, are getting a bad deal here.

Is it really too much to ask to get some inkling of whether we're being listened to? Please, CCP, prove me wrong and restore my faith.

Aside from that rant, back to me pleading for you to stop nerfing ships to the ground. You've gutted the Abaddon by all reports, and that's a tragedy that I hope to not see make it to TQ. There's no good reason to drop resistances at all, and personally I believe that there should be multiple ships per class that retain or even get buffed to a 5% bonus. That being said, the BS class should at least have one ship per race that has the 5% retained. In my very own opinion that I doubt is shared, I think one BS per race should be bumped to 6%. Why? Because it's a BS. Staying power and consistent damage are what these ships are about, and at least one from each race should have the balls to soak damage and put pressure on the enemy (note I said pressure, not ridiculous damage, I'm talking about consistency here), be it in PvE or PvP. Again, that last part is my personal opinion with no math involved for now.

Overall, Amarr is hurting seriously from these changes. Fix the cap/pg enough that we don't devote so many slots to it.

Sorry for the wall of text again, this issue has me a bit heated still, and probably will for a long time to come.

Oh, and the gatling tachs? Sign me up, I wanna hear the roar.


"CCP has given us the proverbial "finger. I really only say this because of the absolute lack of response in this thread", F U C K O F F go look at the the amount of responses in the Caldari and Minmatar threads.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1757 - 2013-04-23 09:57:41 UTC
Pathogen Ascention wrote:
*I posted this in the wrong section earlier, my apologies:

I truly wish I had time to test these changes on Duality, but as I don't I've just been reading what others have posted so far. Judging from what's been posted about Amarr, CCP has given us the proverbial "finger." I really only say this because of the absolute lack of response in this thread from CCP reps while there's be so much outcry, theorycrafting, and suggestions. Then we have the actual test reports from a few saying that we, as Amarr pilots, are getting a bad deal here.

At this time, it's apparent, that CCP Rise don't understand, what he's doing.
More importantly, CCP representative(s) overseeing his work don't care even a little, what he's doing.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1758 - 2013-04-23 10:34:29 UTC
Crash Lander wrote:

In-case it isn't clear what I'm trying to say here; I'll re-iterate it differently: Removing the cap bonus is forcing me to swap a rig that was previously free to be anything (DPS/Tracking/Range/Whatever) to a cap rig to compensate. This in an indirect trade of a bonus and probably not the intended effect.
You've given me a fixed bonus (extra tracking) and taken away my choice of a bonus in a rig. This is why cap bonuses (and cap use bonuses on Amarr ships aren't currently as useless as people think)


I.



Its intended effect is NOTHING RELATED TO PVE. The balance was made thinking on PVP (and that is correct).




Even so I am more and more thinking that the battleships should have RACE bonus. FIXED values:

Ammar Racial bonus: -33% lazors cap usage
Minmatar Racial bonus: 15% extra MWD and AB bonus
Caldari Racial bonus: 20% explosion velocity
Gallente Racial: 15% increase on web strenght

That would make verybody a bit happy and coutner the racial identity murderign that has been goigng on.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zendon Taredi
Tier Four Technologies
#1759 - 2013-04-23 11:59:25 UTC
Enough with the drones. The amarr battleship lineup is good as it is.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1760 - 2013-04-23 12:10:03 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Crash Lander wrote:

In-case it isn't clear what I'm trying to say here; I'll re-iterate it differently: Removing the cap bonus is forcing me to swap a rig that was previously free to be anything (DPS/Tracking/Range/Whatever) to a cap rig to compensate. This in an indirect trade of a bonus and probably not the intended effect.
You've given me a fixed bonus (extra tracking) and taken away my choice of a bonus in a rig. This is why cap bonuses (and cap use bonuses on Amarr ships aren't currently as useless as people think)


I.



Its intended effect is NOTHING RELATED TO PVE. The balance was made thinking on PVP (and that is correct).




Even so I am more and more thinking that the battleships should have RACE bonus. FIXED values:

Ammar Racial bonus: -33% lazors cap usage
Minmatar Racial bonus: 15% extra MWD and AB bonus
Caldari Racial bonus: 20% explosion velocity
Gallente Racial: 15% increase on web strenght

That would make verybody a bit happy and coutner the racial identity murderign that has been goigng on.

A nice idea, but as Amarr pilots have long been pointing out, why the hell should we need a special bonus just to be able to use our "guns" when the other races instead get bonuses that are actually advantagious to use in combat? Why shouldn't they have something done to their guns that would instead require them to have a special bonus on their ships to be able to use them?