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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1701 - 2013-04-21 21:09:20 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Korgan Nailo wrote:
Abaddon cap is worse than hyperion

Remember the Hyperion have its bonus to armor reper. The Abaddon is designed as a fleet ship, with buffer and support.

But it doesn't matter, since you can fit 4 cap boosters and 3 cap rigs to the Hyperion and still have room for a prop mod. That's all you need for cap. Because the number of modules you need to fit just to make your other modules work, other modules the ship is supposed to use, doesn't matter for balance purposes.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Patricia blue
fiendish origins
#1702 - 2013-04-21 21:12:14 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Regolis wrote:
7000 / 1000s / 7.00

Two questions, if you don't mind : Your numbers show that the Abaddon already have the best cap regen, and the second best cap pool of former tier3 BS. Why would it need more ?

And secondly, where did you picked these numbers ? Why not "14000 / 1000s / 14.00" for example ?


While its cap pool and regen are good on paper when you factor in the cap use it doesnt fit when compared to the other battleships in its class cap use.
Regolis
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1703 - 2013-04-21 21:17:18 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Two questions, if you don't mind : Your numbers show that the Abaddon already have the best cap regen, and the second best cap pool of former tier3 BS. Why would it need more ?

And secondly, where did you picked these numbers ? Why not "14000 / 1000s / 14.00" for example ?



The numbers are based on what works for the Apocalypse .. which is in my post. Also regardless of what you think comparing ships of the same "class" is realistic metric.

You are getting caught up on the idea that AMARR HAS MOAR CAP... yes .. yes they do .. they also use more cap .. 2.5 to 3x as much cap.

Understand even with 7000 / 1000 / 7.00s cap the Abaddon would still have to fit 5 cap regen modules

Minimum of 3 CCCs and 2 cap recharger IIs to get to the same stability the rest of the Combat ships with 1 cap recharger II
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1704 - 2013-04-21 21:23:41 UTC
Actually he seems to be caught up on the idea that lasers are overpowered and they deserve to be punished.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1705 - 2013-04-21 21:29:12 UTC
You are actually caught on the idea that the Abaddon is bad. The problem is that it is a wrong idea. The Abaddon is not bad, hence, it doesn't need a buff.

Yes, capacitor is hard on amarr ships, yet, does that make them bad ? I wait for an argumented answer.

You guys are way too focused on capacitor, it's an obsession.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1706 - 2013-04-21 21:36:44 UTC
Honestly we need the ISD's to ban him for trolling, as all he has done with his every post on this thread is ignore any facts and tell everyone they are wrong till they indisputably prove to him he is... and then the next time someone raises a similar point, he's right back to trolling against it.
Regolis
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1707 - 2013-04-21 21:40:44 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
You are actually caught on the idea that the Abaddon is bad. The problem is that it is a wrong idea. The Abaddon is not bad, hence, it doesn't need a buff.

Yes, capacitor is hard on amarr ships, yet, does that make them bad ? I wait for an argumented answer.

You guys are way too focused on capacitor, it's an obsession.



It's obvious that you haven't tested or have played Amarr ships .. you'd realize that your statement about capacitor is completely wrong .. on 90% of other ships capacitor is an after thought ... on Amarr ships Capacitor IS the ship.

We are not Gallente .. we cannot fit a MWD without a SERIOUS hit to our offense.

We do not have capless gun or guns that barely use cap ...

Amarr IS capacitor ... No other race needs max fitting skills ... max cap skills .. controlled bursts 5 and still have to cram half your ship full of cap mods.
If you think that is the "balance" for using lasers then need to play an Amarr ship to even understand. Please stop trying to derail this thread and make it about how underpowered you think Gallente are ... This is the Amarr Battleship thread.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1708 - 2013-04-21 21:44:09 UTC
and just for a good example in regards to Regolis's last... someone fit a Blaster 'baddon... cap stable without a single rig or mod. Yet even with 2 5% implants, we need 6 slots taken up with cap mods for Pulse?
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1709 - 2013-04-21 21:46:58 UTC
Cap use reduction rigs are very effective on Laser Boats. I suggest you use them if you are struggling.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#1710 - 2013-04-21 21:49:25 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Cap use reduction rigs are very effective on Laser Boats. I suggest you use them if you are struggling.

The fitting is problematic as it is already, you suggest o make it even worse?...

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1711 - 2013-04-21 21:58:34 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Cap use reduction rigs are very effective on Laser Boats. I suggest you use them if you are struggling.

Yea, that is part of what we have to fit for the ship if we want it cap stable. We also have to use 1 low slot and 3 or 4 mid slots (last mid slot implant dependant). If your going to attempt to offer fitting advice, then take the time to learn how the ship runs when you attempt to fit it for something first, please.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1712 - 2013-04-21 22:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Capacitor is not everything, even on amarr ships. It's important, yes, but if that was so critical, you could just use standard lens and enjoy a happy cap stable fit.

So now, please, just bring *comprehensive evidence* to support your crusade for cap stable amarr ships. And no, spewing cap number alone is not an evidence.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1713 - 2013-04-21 22:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
You are actually caught on the idea that the Abaddon is bad. The problem is that it is a wrong idea. The Abaddon is not bad, hence, it doesn't need a buff.

Yes, capacitor is hard on amarr ships, yet, does that make them bad ? I wait for an argumented answer.

You guys are way too focused on capacitor, it's an obsession.

I wasn't even talking about the Abaddon. Pretty much everything I've been saying has focused on the Apocalypse.
And I've posted comprehensive evidence. You've ignored it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1714 - 2013-04-21 22:10:56 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
You are actually caught on the idea that the Abaddon is bad. The problem is that it is a wrong idea. The Abaddon is not bad, hence, it doesn't need a buff.

Yes, capacitor is hard on amarr ships, yet, does that make them bad ? I wait for an argumented answer.

You guys are way too focused on capacitor, it's an obsession.

Abaddon is awesome, the best blob ship bar none .. but going from 1/3rds of available BS having limited use in small-scale to 2/3rds is a big deal. Since that is because of the changed capacitor profile of the Apocalypse sans cap bonus, cap is and should be a focus.

Not sure adjusting the hulls is the way to go about it though as it risks breaking them in other ways, but almost all cap modules/rigs represent a sacrifice in and off themselves especially in PvP, and everyone can use them so it isn't an Amarr buff per se.
One module that has harsh fittings, certainly far in excess of the benefits it bestows (and thus rarely used), that could be boosted to help cap mongers everywhere is the lowly battery .. flat 25-50% capacity makes them a worthwhile sacrifice and can in combination with a relay even replace the injector on some ships/fits.
Regolis
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1715 - 2013-04-21 22:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Regolis
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Capacitor is not everything, even on amarr ships. It's important, yes, but if that was so critical, you could just use standard lens and enjoy a happy cap stable fit.

So now, please, just bring *comprehensive evidence* to support your crusade for cap stable amarr ships. And no, spewing cap number alone is not an evidence.



Again you seemed to have missed half of my post.

3 CCCs and 2 cap rechargers with a cap of 7000 / 1000 / 7.0 <--base and an Amarr ship isn't "cap stable"

Duality ------> this way ... you apparently need to actually log in to test things and I'm certain you have not.

Stop using EFT Odyssey beta and actually come fly the ships.

Let me give you an example of what it would be like for Gallete.

Hyperion

Capacitor 5000 / 2000s / 2.5s <--- this would make a Gallete railboat or Blaster boat cap crippled .. this ship would need 3 Semiconductors and 2-3 cap recharger 2s to stably fire it's guns ... forget about repairing

That is apparently where you're happy with Amarr being so why shouldn't Gallente be happy with the same?
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#1716 - 2013-04-21 22:13:11 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Capacitor is not everything, even on amarr ships. It's important, yes, but if that was so critical, you could just use standard lens and enjoy a happy cap stable fit.

So now, please, just bring *comprehensive evidence* to support your crusade for cap stable amarr ships. And no, spewing cap number alone is not an evidence.

I hope you do know that in doing that you do less damage than a cruiser...

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Naomi Anthar
#1717 - 2013-04-21 22:15:00 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
You are actually caught on the idea that the Abaddon is bad. The problem is that it is a wrong idea. The Abaddon is not bad, hence, it doesn't need a buff.

Yes, capacitor is hard on amarr ships, yet, does that make them bad ? I wait for an argumented answer.

You guys are way too focused on capacitor, it's an obsession.

Abaddon is awesome, the best blob ship bar none .. but going from 1/3rds of available BS having limited use in small-scale to 2/3rds is a big deal. Since that is because of the changed capacitor profile of the Apocalypse sans cap bonus, cap is and should be a focus.

Not sure adjusting the hulls is the way to go about it though as it risks breaking them in other ways, but almost all cap modules/rigs represent a sacrifice in and off themselves especially in PvP, and everyone can use them so it isn't an Amarr buff per se.
One module that has harsh fittings, certainly far in excess of the benefits it bestows (and thus rarely used), that could be boosted to help cap mongers everywhere is the lowly battery .. flat 25-50% capacity makes them a worthwhile sacrifice and can in combination with a relay even replace the injector on some ships/fits.


Looks like you never undocked in Amarr ship once... enough of this bullshit. I will use your own tactic : prove me that being cap starved is NOT ISSUE AT ALL. Because so far you wanna convice us that it's not problem. Eat your own poison now. Explain me how having cap for a bit more than 1 minute is good for us ? I'm trying to explain something to myself - you are just stupid or troll or bad or all of those. Maybe you can give me a hint ?
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1718 - 2013-04-21 22:20:19 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Looks like you never undocked in Amarr ship once... enough of this bullshit. I will use your own tactic : prove me that being cap starved is NOT ISSUE AT ALL. Because so far you wanna convice us that it's not problem. Eat your own poison now. Explain me how having cap for a bit more than 1 minute is good for us ? I'm trying to explain something to myself - you are just stupid or troll or bad or all of those. Maybe you can give me a hint ?

Most of my frigates have 40s of cap life.

I will need more informations about what you want to do though with this one minute, but I will hapily help you.
Naomi Anthar
#1719 - 2013-04-21 22:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
I will start with this : battleship is not frigate.

So ........

So ........

frigate skirmishes are fast and usually end up quick. You can't say same about battleship battles - they last longer and so they need to use thier stuff longer. Simple as that.
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1720 - 2013-04-21 22:59:44 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:

Looks like you never undocked in Amarr ship once... enough of this bullshit. I will use your own tactic : prove me that being cap starved is NOT ISSUE AT ALL. Because so far you wanna convince us that it's not problem. Eat your own poison now. Explain me how having cap for a bit more than 1 minute is good for us ? I'm trying to explain something to myself - you are just stupid or troll or bad or all of those. Maybe you can give me a hint ?


I going with a troll with an Agenda. Look up his kill board stats (which when reading your whole post looks like you did. He flies almost exclusively Gallente. Probably cause he tried Amarr since he has some Amarr skills trained but only Large Energy Turret 3 and Amarr BS 3. (at least 30 days ago that was the case) Then he figured out they had issues already had Amour skills trained and went to Gallente. Or did Gallente first tried Amarr went that sucks and went back to Gallente.

Its clear he is not here for balance issues but to make sure that after Re-balancing the relative power of Gallente is better off than Amarr.

I mean the majority here are looking for 2 things: enough cap in the weapons system and the ship to be able to fire the guns, something all non- Amarr ships can do. And enough grid or reduced grid on the guns that we can fit them. And we are asking not to be able to do this with level 1 skills but we would be happy with this being possible with level 5 skills.