Player Features and Ideas Discussion

After reading this entire thread first let me say CCP please be careful of who's feedback you take seriously because 90% of the posts in this thread are nothing but whines and moans about change. I dont believe for one second that any change you made will be 100% accepted and it boils down to one fundamental principal: People dont like change no matter what kind it is! But I digress. I really like the changes as a whole but a few stick out that I don't get. The abaddon's resist bonus, taking away capacitor bonus and not placing anything in it's place because let's be honest here "O' lord dat capacitor!" To all the ppl complaining about these changes I urge you to have a little insight and faith. What makes you think after these changes that Bhaalgorn will not be touched up down the road to compensate for the geddon being on it's turf now? The geddon and domi still have differences that mean making a choice between the two will depend on what circumstances you are facing like any other ship out there.


I swear all the moans and complaints remind of when I was younger and my parents told me we were moving and I needed to change schools, yea I cried and complained but I was ****ing twelve. Sometimes change is good even thought it might not seem like it at first. Once again CCP I really look forward to Odyssey and that my Amarr BS's are getting some much needed love and changes however please take careful thought into what feedback you process and give something for capacitor issues we both know there be will some.

PS: Having 3 BS's that do the exact same thing was p effen boring

PSS: Congrats kil2, your doing a awesome job ;)

Also for as long as I can remember Amarr weapons systems have always revolved around three things: lasers, drones and khanid missles so having the geddon spew them out isn't so far off base as ppl make it seem to be.

No, not gonna happen.

I could have quoted it fully, but I preferred to shorten it for readability.
And my point is still - NO. I'm not going to eat this crap, I'm fed up to the neck with this atrocity.

Very dissapointed to see you remove the best lowsec/smallgang battleship out of the amarrian lineup. I do sincerely hope that you won't wreck the navy geddon, the way that you have ruined the current geddon, from being a mobile, tough, cheap, high dps laser platform, into a weak bhaalgorn. I suppose super capital killers will rejoice, to the addition of a ship with neut bonuses that doesn't have to get as close, but I would have hoped that you would have taken a less with how terrible the dragoon is, and ideally, overhauled the dragoon into something useful, instead of wrecking the armageddon into something similarly aweful. Will the Amarrian battleship line be getting a decent small gang warfare battleship back in the future? The apoc has pathetic dps by comparison, and the abaddon is far too slow, as well as having a fair bit less (~10%) dps than the armageddon.

At this point, anything is better than what's proposed. Fitting Lasers+Neuts would be too crazy on cap, but Laser+NOS would be perfect way to sustain combat and keep strong tank/DPS. Needs at least 6 turrets though and I'd trade the med slot for another high unless thats too OP.

I should probably have stated more clearly "Remote Rep fleets". Again, resistance bonused ships benefit from remote repping a great deal more than ships that do not have resistance bonuses.

"A preface for Amarr: This ship line presented a special sort of obstacle."
"The Abaddon, price aside, was clearly the most dominant of the Amarr line-up. We've left it totally in-tact as your go-to laser brawler, except for the resist bonus tweak."

That obstacle being the majority of CSM's currently on council have the most to lose from a nerf to this ship so of course they have balked at any changes.

Stop pandering to the strutting roosters and letting them influence your decisions.

+4% Armor resistances (-1% per level) <-- you call this a significant change?

Try adding this to your equation;
Slot layout: 8H, 4M(+1), 7L(-1); 8(-2) turrets, 0(+2) launchers
and adjust the PWG accordingly
Or something similar to drop the DPS and make them more in-line with the rest of the "attack" BS

Ok CCP Rise....
I dislike the New ship, I think it is a poor direction to go with the Hull, but With the changes to lasers, I'll stop pushing for a total rehaul of the idea, and go mess with it on Sisi.

Some constructive things till then;

It' needs a touch more PG to Fit with Lasers, about 2% would make me happy.
With a 2% bump You can fit a full rack of T2 pulse, with AWG-4 ( though you still need a Rig ) , I think that makes sense as a fitting target, but is not strictly required to make it a viable hull.

For the Missile Fits; It is very slightly lacking on CPU to make a nice T-II close range fit, again not by much, 1-2% will make it work with good skills, and a Rig.


My Original and remaining complaints about the Hull,
1. It too closely encroaches on the Domi; While the Domi is better at drones, the difference is small in the area where it matters, namely in damage application. They really do look too similar, down to the fact that Hybrid's are a near optimal turret to support the drone bonus and use for PvE.
I don't have a good solution to this, maybe change the bonus to +15% to the Optimal Range and Effect of EWAR and Utility Drones? I don't want to give up DPS, but ... I want to be a Domi clone even less.

2. The Neut Bonus;
The Neut range bonus is both Far far to hard a counter to Tackle... and not effective enough, all at the same time.

First the too powerful part:
Lots of people have talked about how the range will make long point useless, even with links, and while this is kinda true, it assumes that the 'gedden pilot is Amarr BS-V, most of us in this thread have that I would assume, but it is in the grand scheme of things not all that common, and will become less common with the impending Capitol changes, and with BS-4, the link bonused long point out ranges the Neut.
Plus a ship using a faction point is out of range.
The ship class this really hurts is the HIC, no matter what they do, they only have a 36k range, most only 30k .

On the the Not strong enough bit:
Ignoring the long point issues for a second, the other major targets for Cap warfare are 1. Capitols, 2. Logistics, 3. Cap-hungry BS's
And this bonus does little if nothing to help with any of those target classes. , Caps you want to be close to... the extra range is not a benefit, Logistics you can not reach their range is too long,
As for the other BS's, they fall in three categories,
have viable engagement ranges greater than 40km ( Scorch, Null ) ,
have to engage at under 25km ( Void, Conflag etc.),
or don't use cap ( AC's/ Missiles / Drones)

Together this leaves the bonus as a kinda misfit, VERY strong in solo and small gang, allowing you to dictate the terms of engagement, while in a larger fleet, or against a gang expecting it, it is wasted.

I would prefer to see a small bonus to drain amount (3-5%/lvl ) , I think it has a more balanced place in the game over all,
or equally good a Large bonus to the activation cost of Neut/Nos mods, something like 7.5-10%/lvl that preserves the Bhall's role, and would not upset game bllance

There is no BS missile platform, only lasers so the training paths/times will not change one iota .. a person who trains for Dragoon-Arbitrator-Prophecy will be able to take full advantage of the Armageddon. The laser focused character will have two fully fledged hulls to abuse while training the last few levels, but most of the training will happen much earlier now that more of the line-up has functional drone bays.

There is no rule that says that by training a given a hull size one should be able to immediately use all available, you see same 2 weapon requirements in all four races (C:missiles/hybrids, G:hybrids/drones, M:projectiles/missiles, A:lasers/drones) .. so get off the barricade, you look silly standing all alone up there