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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#781 - 2013-04-10 23:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelea Ming
@ CCP Rise

Ok, I've been giving a lot of thought lately to the issues quite a few people have expressed about lower skilled / newer players not having a good BS for them to get into without some rather intensive training... as well as my general agreement with I rather don't like that the Amarr do not currently have a T1 8 L slot BS.

So, I would like to suggest this idea, instead. On the Abaddon, remove 2 high slots (yes, remove 2 turrets, and do not give it any utility slots), raise it's damage bonus from 5% to 10% per level, and slap on that 8th low slot. This would allow it to keep the same base DPS, yet give it a means of reducing cap draw that would fit changes done to previous hulls, and allow it an extra slot to work with when fitting tank to help it stay the tankiest of armor ships yet not be something so noticeably powerful in PvP as the old resist boost.
commander aze
#782 - 2013-04-10 23:49:06 UTC
because of the cap heavy guns fix cap use so active tank is a legit option for the Amarr line up... always been broken, really only good as fleet fit ships....make it possible for good level 4 mission ships form the Amarr and better solo ships form the amarr.

Commander Aze For CSM XII

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=506400

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Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#783 - 2013-04-11 00:00:47 UTC
Naso Aya wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

I think you are confusing me with someone else. I have nothing against Navy issue ships but I personally don't expect a new player to invest in one.

However I do expect a new player wanting to fly Amarr to skill up their cap skills and then laser skills as quickly as possible, certainly before they decide to bring a BS with them to do their missions in. Smile



Oops, you're right, I did confuse you with someone else.

I suppose if Amarr were the only race, I wouldn't have as big of an issue, but with 3 other races capable of doing level 4s without max capacitor skills, it makes me wonder why I have to train an extra 40 days just for MY ship to be usable in missions, especially when there's a tech II tank, guns, and maneuverability skills to learn.

Cap skills are important, but linking it to BS meant that pilots had a relatively fast way of getting a 30-40% cap use reduction on guns, without spending 40 days training for that last little 10%. Its possible on all the new ships, I just hated in the past asking for a fit for armageddon, and getting back "Lol, cross-train gallente/caldari for PvE, it's so much easier."

And I got that response before these recent changes to the lineup.

To insert my own commentary here, I always wonder why people are even allowed out of a frigate without having trained their T2 tank skills.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#784 - 2013-04-11 00:14:26 UTC
Alannah Thellere wrote:

If you're going to make 2 of the 3 ships marginal or useless for us PvE folks (one scooty and too fragile, and one with utterly useless-to-me neut bonuses) please make them the ugly hulls and leave the Armageddon alone. I'm not ashamed to say that I play this game for the coolness of doing stuff in awesome giant spaceships in a universe rendered complex and dangerous by flocks of players doing their little-boy playground dominance games or their antisocial hair-pulling or their mass-scale puppet mastering. But I like it (and sub several accounts) because I can do what I enjoy in some of the cool ships. I like working toward excellence - good fits, solid tactics, efficiency, synergy, etc - in what I do just as much as anyone, but you keep taking away ships that I can fit and fly without doing something stupid. Please stop it.

Ah, so you love your giant space dildo, do you? lol, just picking on ya, don't mind me, we just get abit too serious in this thread from time to time, I thought peeps could use a joke :)
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#785 - 2013-04-11 00:39:21 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
we just get abit too serious in this thread from time to time, I thought peeps could use a joke :)

I though, that joke is reserved for Iteron. Jokes aside, when you see a flat out mistake happening in front of your eyes, wouldn't you interfere?

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Rikimaru Ichikawa
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#786 - 2013-04-11 00:42:07 UTC
Yeah as people have posted before, I reall ythink that CCP needs to look at the Tach II guns, they're way out of balance currently both on fitting and use (cap usage) vs dmg output. The PG requirements and cap use need to be looked at imho as well, so they can be viably fit onto the BS hulls like Apoc and the Abaddon. Cap stability is going to be even more of an issue now than it was ever before. And I have maxed skils in that area... Cry
Meduza13
Silver Octopus
Infernal Octopus
#787 - 2013-04-11 00:48:50 UTC
I have not seen a single post when someone agrees on nerfing abaddon, so nerfing should not happen, simply.
And fact that gallente (yes, gallente!) getting 8 lowslot battleship, and amarr not (yet-hopefully) , is just unbelievable.
And if 8th lowslot comes at cost of removing 2 higslots (with10%dmg bonus) like some guys suggesting or removing medslot - whatever. it just has to be done.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#788 - 2013-04-11 00:56:27 UTC
Meduza13 wrote:
I have not seen a single post when someone agrees on nerfing abaddon

Nerfing? It needs something to nerf, first.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#789 - 2013-04-11 00:56:29 UTC
Pretty sure the point of reducing the armor bonus to 4% is to make people with OCD pull their hair out. Reducing the armor hitpoints slightly would make considerably more sense.
Jack C Hughes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#790 - 2013-04-11 00:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack C Hughes
So here am I, pushing the idea of a 6 turret + 10% damage bonus.
Which ever hull you use, Abaddon or Apoc.
I like this idea so much so I think I need to explain it again.

the bonus will be sth like 10% damage + range(for apoc) or resist (if you decide abaddon is better)
Slot lay out 7 high, 4 mid and 8 low
Slightly decreased PG, little bit more cap(or same if you want).
decrease its drone bay to 75 and band to 50.

Reasons:

1: It is NOT over powered. When compaired with other similar BS in other races, this is just a 6+3 turret ship, after bouns. both Rokh and Maelstorms have 8+2, and hyporion has the same bonus. AND this will be a ship that could fit 6 Tachs without compensating too much on tank. It will still need a PG rig to do so, though.

2: It is simple. You don't need to change the stats of any turret, or cap recharge rate. As we have only 6 turrets on this ship, the cap consumption will still be a bit higher than before(with 50% cap bonus), but it is acceptable. This avoid any possible problem of rebalancing the lasers itself.

3: It gives new players a choice for PVE and lvl4 mission running. With a slightly decreased pg this ship could be fitted with pulse with dual rep or beam with single rep. And it could be cap stable with an extra low, with basic skills, while has potentical of increased DPS or tank when the skill progress. For the damage, it has a very similar damage to the old one, 7.5 vs 8 when BS skill 3, and 9 VS 8 with BS skill 5, only concerning the turrets.

4: It could still be fitted using mega pulse, would have a lower dps compaired to the old geddon, but one more mid and more pg for fitting. This compensates the change of geddon into a drone boat.

And

5: If you use the Apoc hull as I suggest, it does not have a similar role with any ship. It will have a decent range and damage. It has more tank and longer rage than Oracle, but less dps and less mobility. It has weeker tank than Rokh and lower range, but sould have more DPS. This is a laser platform dedicated with using lasers kill the other ship at range.
Meduza13
Silver Octopus
Infernal Octopus
#791 - 2013-04-11 01:01:09 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Meduza13 wrote:
I have not seen a single post when someone agrees on nerfing abaddon

Nerfing? It needs something to nerf, first.



Yea thats what I mean if I was not clear, possibly. It needs no nerfing at all.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#792 - 2013-04-11 01:02:15 UTC
Meduza13 wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Meduza13 wrote:
I have not seen a single post when someone agrees on nerfing abaddon

Nerfing? It needs something to nerf, first.



Yea thats what I mean if I was not clear, possibly. It needs no nerfing at all.

It need a role first, because right now it has none. And I would prefer it to stay that way, instead of stepping on other hulls' toes. Is this clear?

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
fukier
Gallente Federation
#793 - 2013-04-11 01:03:59 UTC
i think large beams need a boost.

so this is what i would do:

reduce pg of beams and tachs by 25% and then reduce cap activation cost by 10% and increase optimal range by 15%
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Rikimaru Ichikawa
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#794 - 2013-04-11 01:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikimaru Ichikawa
fukier wrote:
i think large beams need a boost.

so this is what i would do:

reduce pg of beams and tachs by 25% and then reduce cap activation cost by 10% and increase optimal range by 15%

Yeah any adjuistment like this would be welcome to enable them to be more viable.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#795 - 2013-04-11 01:20:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruze
A couple points to make regarding the 'feel' of these changes:

Switch the Abaddon and Geddon changes. Look at the shape and feel of each of the drone ships. Dragoon is a much thicker, rounder destroyer than the coercer. The Arbi, while streamlined, still does not look like a laser boat. The prophecy has that 'bloated' look, too, lending credance to it carrying a bunch of drones. The Abaddon, of all the Amarr battleships, is the one that looks most like a flight of drones will pop out of every orifice.

Why is looks important? It's not to everyone. But I feel the primary laser ships get that same sense of feel. As an example, the way the Harbinger compares to the Geddon. The straight sightlines, the armored front, the lasers broadside. Both look like laser boats.



Secondly, I feel very strongly about losing my Armageddon. In every sense of the word, it is a classic design that has been around since the beginning of EvE. While I have never understood just why the Abaddon became the flagship of armor battleships when the Geddon was obviously designed with protection in mind, I will concede that it's been popular.

But don't change a classic if it don't need changed. These changes are still far enough away to backtrack, to rethink, and to place that Armageddon as the most heavily armored, hardest punching laser boat of the fleet ... AS IT BLOODY WELL SHOULD BE!

Edit: Because I cannot seem to sense since I read this post.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#796 - 2013-04-11 01:31:27 UTC
well since all the gallente tearing got what they want i propose this. And tbh, the gallente are just lucky they had good battleships for so many years.

Apocalypse

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret Rate of fire per level
5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level and Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer drain amount per level
Role bonus: 100% damage to large Energy Turrets

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 4(-4) turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 23000 PWG(+2500), 640 CPU(+135)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6000(-211) / 7000(-500) / 7000(+359)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 8500(+1000) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .119(-.017) / 97100000 / 16.02s (-2.29s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 73km(+5.5k) / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#797 - 2013-04-11 01:35:35 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
well since all the gallente tearing got what they want i propose this. And tbh, the gallente are just lucky they had good battleships for so many years.

ApocalypseBhaalgorn

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret Rate of fire per level
5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level and Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer drain amount per level
Role bonus: 100% damage to large Energy Turrets

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 4(-4) turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 23000 PWG(+2500), 640 CPU(+135)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6000(-211) / 7000(-500) / 7000(+359)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 8500(+1000) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .119(-.017) / 97100000 / 16.02s (-2.29s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 73km(+5.5k) / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)

Already exists.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Jack C Hughes
State War Academy
Caldari State
#798 - 2013-04-11 01:35:54 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
well since all the gallente tearing got what they want i propose this. And tbh, the gallente are just lucky they had good battleships for so many years.

Apocalypse

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret Rate of fire per level
5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level and Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer drain amount per level
Role bonus: 100% damage to large Energy Turrets

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 4(-4) turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 23000 PWG(+2500), 640 CPU(+135)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6000(-211) / 7000(-500) / 7000(+359)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 8500(+1000) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .119(-.017) / 97100000 / 16.02s (-2.29s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 73km(+5.5k) / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)


lol this thing will kill the bhaalgorn as it has one more high for neut and same bonus and more dps if you wish.
Also 1/10 the price.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#799 - 2013-04-11 01:36:40 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
well since all the gallente tearing got what they want i propose this. And tbh, the gallente are just lucky they had good battleships for so many years.

ApocalypseBhaalgorn

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+7.5% to Large Energy Turret Rate of fire per level
5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level
10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level and Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer drain amount per level
Role bonus: 100% damage to large Energy Turrets

Slot layout: 8H, 4M, 7L; 4(-4) turrets , 0 launchers
Fittings: 23000 PWG(+2500), 640 CPU(+135)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6000(-211) / 7000(-500) / 7000(+359)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 8500(+1000) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .119(-.017) / 97100000 / 16.02s (-2.29s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 73km(+5.5k) / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 20 Radar Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 380(-20)

Already exists.

nope. This fit was to try to get the apoc on par with the new proposed mega

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
#800 - 2013-04-11 01:39:14 UTC
Go and try to run a level 5 mission with an Apoc, then tell me about it's cap stability. To be honest unless you planning a MAJOR DPS upgrade or CAP AND PG downgrade on lasers across the board, Amarr ships will be simply unusable. Guns, Armor and Cap mods are all heavy PG users and these ships just can't afford to be nerfed in any of those areas without getting massive buffs in others.

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