Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think that's the central issue, resistance bonuses scale up a little too well (especially with logistic support) compared to active tanking. It's no secret that CCP is planning on balancing that out, so a small nerf to the resistance bonus is logical and will probably be followed with a buff of some sort to active tanking.

I don't really think they want to fiddle too much with how logistics work, as they could easily make them non-viable with any ship that doesn't get a resistance bonus... and that's not desireable. They just want to tone down the resistance bonus a little while making active tanking scale upwards a bit better.

They havent released how they are going to change the manufacturing requirements so no argument based on cost can be made.

Besides that, the abaddon will still have significantly more ehp and take reps better than the apoc or geddon

Its now the ATTACK ship. So is the Mega. So this boat can certainly be used to brawl if you want. Though yes, I agree with you 96K is light. You can drop the TE and add another 1600 plate in this fit and it goes up to 120k ehp, much higher with boosts. But sadly requires a 4% implant so would have to play with the fit a bit more. You can easily 3 plate it and drop to lower guns and the range is still out to the 50's. So lots of options.

I said this was 1) a quick fit to take a look at some numbers 2) A fleet of these will be very nasty 3) your mids you can adjust to your flavor, in this set up the scram/ web is just to deal with the things that make it in close so you can switch to short range crystals and still hit. And you will with 2-3 of these boats webbing you. Ideally you would come into an engagement at some range and you'll be able to hit the whole way why they try to get to you. 4) With legion boosts 130k ehp and logi will probably hold depending on what your up against. Don't fly a Talos anywhere near this thing.

So anyways I see this as a pretty good boat that might only need some tweaking, perhaps a tad of CPU.

I like the changes, although I must say, I have one big fat concern: capacitor usage.

Allow me to explain. Lets see some close range turrets:
800mm Repeating Artillery II: 0 / 7.88s
Neutron Blaster Cannon II: 18.2 GJ / 8s
Mega Pulse Laser II: 40 GJ / 8s

Now for long range turrets:
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II: 0 / 40.16s
425mm Railgun II: 30 GJ / 10s
Tachyon Beam Laser II: 95 GJ / 13s

So, there is not a "small" change, there is a HUGE change. To compensate, some hulls have had some changes on that matter, at least for cruisers, navy and BCs. We've seen the choice of "less turrets and more bonus damage" here and there a few times already.

Now, if we look at the hulls, between Amarr, Gallente and Minmatar, they all have around the 5.0 regen. Am I the only one that finds that a bit strange?!?

My major problem with the Abaddon is the bloody cap usage. Amazing in fleets, an absolute nightmare if used solo. Everything that is not tank is put to cap generation, and it still lacks. Meanwhile other ships just don't use cap at all and players complain they can't have a web and a TC and a TE, just a TC and TE, while still shooting non stop. Now apparently, the Apoc will join the same problem.

If there is room for a suggestion, make it so these hulls regen more cap. That simple.

Comparing with Minmatar ships, it is almost pathetic that those have about the same cap regen as Amarr ships given they use 0 cap to shoot. "Oh, but you don't use Ammo", right, so make T1 crystals break too and we are good to review these then, right? =)

P.S.: love the new Armageddon! =D

Oops, you're right, I did confuse you with someone else.

I suppose if Amarr were the only race, I wouldn't have as big of an issue, but with 3 other races capable of doing level 4s without max capacitor skills, it makes me wonder why I have to train an extra 40 days just for MY ship to be usable in missions, especially when there's a tech II tank, guns, and maneuverability skills to learn.

Cap skills are important, but linking it to BS meant that pilots had a relatively fast way of getting a 30-40% cap use reduction on guns, without spending 40 days training for that last little 10%. Its possible on all the new ships, I just hated in the past asking for a fit for armageddon, and getting back "Lol, cross-train gallente/caldari for PvE, it's so much easier."

And I got that response before these recent changes to the lineup.

Sadly , I have to disagree with you on both the Apoc/Armageddon points - The Amarr have little options in the way of fittings, that is well known. However, your Conflag Apoc won't have much of a survival time when put into the heart of battle - Your cap will last you only a very short while even before these changes, and even less without. Your armour, while still somewhat significant, is a paltry level and unless you trimark up your ship, your going to go down fast.

The Armageddon isn't going to be fun for anyone - Its taking on far too many roles and is akin to juggling chainsaws which are also rotating mini chainsaws around the main chain blade which are also on fire: It will end up a horrible horrible mess that no-one will want to go near.



*edit*

I know people may think of me as being backwards, but I prefer the Amarr ships as they are currently - untouched until they can actually give us what we want. The Caldari/Minmatar/Gallente may need the changes - you even mentioned it yourselves CCP : The Amarrians have the perfect set of Battleships. Don't go changing them for change sake.

I wish the Geddon was left as is and a new Amarr BS was made to be the drone one (infact i'd love to see a new T1 BS for all races).

I know that the Dev's are looking at the other threads when they can. However, the single actual dev reply was hardly helpful.


I still seriously fear that these changes are going to be implemented without proper player input. Rather nice they snuck them inbetween CSM's..


I don't believe however Lillith that the Navy BC's will become all powerful - They will be around the 175m+ ISK mark after prices have settled - Battleships will still be more cost effective after fittings.

1. Abaddon and Rokh nerf. I don't see the point behind this. If you feel RR is too powerful, nerf it. At least you can choose to alter its hitpoints so that it maintains roughly the same albeit slightly lower EHP with an overall lower EHP. Basically, we need to have some interesting changes to both tankish BS

2. Apoc. I like the tracking bonus. Cheaper Foxcats fleet and makes Gunnery skill less skill-intensive but it trades for more intensive cap-skills. Guess everyone has to carry a cap booster though, even if they do PVE only. I will love to see a much stronger cap on Apoc so that at least players,especially the new ones can find a laser ship that is cap friendly enough to use.
The possibility of fitting Tachyons are not appealing for me at all since it is still pretty prohibitive in terms of skills and fitting. Plus, we have Scorch for Pulse anyway. So I'd really like to see some more cap improvement, especially when all Ammar laser boats are already skill intensive in Engineering and Gunnery.

Just a side note, anyone think Dual Pulse should be slightly improved as no one is using them?

3. Armageddon
Finally a cheap and effective net boat other than the Bhaal! However, the range bonus is really not enough to make it effective or appealing for many players when the novelty wears off. I think it will be better to make it into the Disruption hull like the Scorpion since it is what neut is supposed to be doing and brings in either insane neut range bonuses, or neut amount bonuses, or even neut's cap use bonus as a Role Bonus. The drone bonus can be pretty much thrown away for me personally though keeping the bandwidth and bay.

Overall, it should be an alternative to Bhaal and Amarr Recons with its distinct bonuses like the ECM ships do. (Black bird/Scorpion has longer range vs T2 ECM boats which has better ECM strength) The present proposal makes geddon like a neut-ability-boosted version of Dominix, which will not be interesting at all due to the overlap.

If you're going to make 2 of the 3 ships marginal or useless for us PvE folks (one scooty and too fragile, and one with utterly useless-to-me neut bonuses) please make them the ugly hulls and leave the Armageddon alone. I'm not ashamed to say that I play this game for the coolness of doing stuff in awesome giant spaceships in a universe rendered complex and dangerous by flocks of players doing their little-boy playground dominance games or their antisocial hair-pulling or their mass-scale puppet mastering. But I like it (and sub several accounts) because I can do what I enjoy in some of the cool ships. I like working toward excellence - good fits, solid tactics, efficiency, synergy, etc - in what I do just as much as anyone, but you keep taking away ships that I can fit and fly without doing something stupid. Please stop it.