Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Which ones? Ditanian fleet requires Paladins, Navy Apocs, and Bhaalgorns for Amarr ships.



I'll take your word for it as this is unverifiable, and it's never been claimed that Abaddon was weak while having remote cap.


This is the argument people are making. They only get mediocre for missions once you get Scorch, prior to that point they are one of the worst. At best mediocre is the BEST the Amarr can do and this is what we're arguing. Any serious mission runner will go from Navy Harb straight to Navy Geddon, Nightmare or Pally (what do all 3 of those have in common?) avoiding the PG and cap fitting ass ache which is unfortunate.


You'll need a lot more than one T2 discharge rig and it's this module/rig tax just to fire our weapons for more than 3 minutes that is the subject of complaint. The situation gets more dire for the Abaddon (and all Amarr BS's) sub-level 5 cap/fitting skills.



They're really pigeon holed into EM as Scorch is 95% of what you'll see. Giving Amarr a viable option outside of Scorch should open more doors to more Thermal damage which will hopefully be addressed in the upcoming rebalance.

That's 75% of rigs (and only works for pulses btw due to PG fitting of beams) and 25% of medium slots just to be able to fire your weapons. Do you think that is reasonable/balanced or are you making our point for us?



Do you mean dual heavy beams? They're also quite forgiving on damage.

Oh good so other races can't use half their weapons either without level 5's? I was worried it was imbalanced.

And again you fail in common logic and understanding. The point is broken balance. No ammount of preferences towards one of many consequences on your side can change that. Just because you don't care about one thing doesn't mean it isn't important.

Lies, lies, lies...
Abaddon gets rejected by any decent incursion fleet, if you dont have pally/vindi or faction bs you can as well go home, because even if you actually get into fleet, that shitfleet will lose in any site to shield or proper armor. So 0 isk/h. The funniest thing, its even worse in assaults and hq, because it cant fit long range guns without capping out in 5 minutes.
Higher grade wh gangs use dreads, carriers, pirate bs, faction bs, marauders - but certainly not abaddons. If you actually were in some "higher grade" wh gang, you would realize that sleepers actually neut pretty hard at pretty long ranges...
They are used in l4s by people who have not find out yet how much they suck or simply dont have skillpoins to fly anything else. Bad for them they decided to start as amarr.

Sure, use t2 discharge rigs instead of ccc rigs you were using, it not like you want to use that rig slots for precision or dps anyway. And even if you use that rigs, YOU WILL STILL CAP OUT, EVEN IF THEY ARE T2, EVEN IF YOU HAVE 5% CAP IMPLANTS and EVEN IF YOU USE 400M DEADSPACE MEDIUM REP (that cant tank incoming damage anyway, so you will have enough time regenerating cap while warping out and in). Meanwhile t1 raven or phoon will be lobbing its 8k cruise missile volleys to 100k+ (1k missile dps) with no cap issues whatsoever while actually having properly sized tank and using all rigs for precision. And vanilla domi will outclass abaddons scorch damage just with sentries.

And the bonus - you can use raven, phoon or domi in ANY corner of the universe. Unlike amarr ships.

Oh, btw, deerin is the same person that trolled in "navy bs thread" and fought with 5 people to prove how "bad" new navy phoon is compared to navy raven in pve, because "3 slot tank is barely enough" (3 slot capboosted xlsb tank, absolutely no cap issues).
And now he wont even say a word about that shifit baddon with deadspace medium rep that tanks maybe half of xlsb using 4 lows, 1 mid and 3 rigs... for 5 minutes (if you are not using conflag or ab).

gg fanboy, lie hard, twist truth as much as possible to protect your new op toy


gallente bs thread/navy bs thread :
"So ccp, you gave megatron and navy mega rof bonus, so now you must give it cap bonus, because we are not able to shoot void for 40 minutes."

tldr
So amarrians, you want to be competitive with any other race in pve or pvp? Sorry, that wont work.
You just suck at whining for buffs and fixes and you are using logic (lol) to prove your point instead of posting plain lies and demagogy used by mintard and gaylente trolls and fanboys. And its going to be even worse because most of amarrians already crosstrianed or are crosstraining at the moment, so no one will give a ****.

No, Im qualifying liars and trolls as liars or trolls. You certainly belong to them and every your post proves that.

Also "learn to play" and "experience and knowledge" from person ranked some 70k places under me with 230 lifetime kills and all in gaylente ships, yeah, that sure it has its weight... Can I ask you, have you even sit in any amarr ship yet? Not talking about industrials...

So stfu gaylente fanboy and come back when you actually have some "experience and knowledge."

So true...
The whiners on this topic are more guys afraid to see a game balanced and to lose their current advantages, than disgusted Amarr.

I wonder why guys who even don't play Amarr comes on this topic and troll like that.

Anyway I expect from CCP to be smart and honest...

@Deerin

I think you getting trolled pretty hard about pve performance of amarr hulls. Once you look at optimizing tank, dps and game play the ability of having the scorch/conflagration option comes with a very big hit on weapon cap use(since meta 4 guns use 25% less cap, faction ones even 30% less). It took me over 2 weeks and changing from CCCs to discharge rigs before I was able to actually utilize the higher dps in a similar smooth way as before. The reason for this is that you need to have a good capacitor and ammo discipline if you want to push it and the higher cap use in combination of cap hungry T2 ammo needs a lot of analysing and planning ahead to produce actually quicker L4 times instead of cap fuckups and warpouts if you using a fitting like mine.

The hole "cap issues for new players" is horrible overrated in my option, since you will not utilize T2 weapons and extreme cap hungry ammo all the time, you mostly use xray, standard and microwave with guns that require a lot less cap. If you want to become effective you have to learn how to utilize cap, ammo and range, to smooth out your game play and the "need scorch" mentality produces more harm than good at least on BS levels in pve, you literally **** your own cap with it for no good reason most of the time.

Scorch produces around 10% extra dps in real game play(meaning not exclusively hammering down rats with super weak em resists) at faction standard ranges(50km, what is a very common combat range with amarr BS in L4) and the use is very situational at this ranges if you actually use a high performance setup with low runtime. It is a very good microwave replacement, but once you look into cap efficiency and something as cap hungry as the abaddon you need to think twice if the extra cap you need is worth it, especially with lower skills and non discharge rigged hulls.

For newer players, when it comes to utilize a amarr BS for pve content, I can only recommend to use TCs and utilize less cap heavy faction ammo at higher ranges, instead of building setups completely around cap heavy scorch use, fitting a ton of cap mods or fitting a cap booster. It is a lot more effective(since you have the extra range with scorch or the extra tracking if you need it) and reduces cap consumption a lot.

Edit: The fitting Lugalzagezi666 complains about was the one I posted like 10 pages ago, and the major issue for him is that he is bad at flying amarr hulls, at using lasers and L4 missions, what simply doesn't mix so well once you try to use a fitting that is optimized around isk/h and require a solid understanding of what you do and how you do it with it, since a 200 DPS tank and a minimum of cap mods doesn't forgive much mistakes.

WRONG, no one has ever said that. Stop mis-characterizing our argument. Being able to just fire your weapons (not tank or prop) long enough to do a mission is a pretty low bar that is met by all 3 other races.



Wrong again, I can jump into a Phoon or Raven with an all-meta 4 fit with sub-level 5 fitting and cap skills and easily be viable in L4's. Try this with a pulse build or even worse a beam fit requiring a PG mod just to fit your guns + anything else.



Wrong again, no other race needs at least 3 mods (I argue more if you don't want to fit cap boosters for pve) to JUST fire their weapons. We haven't even talked about prop's or non-buffer tanks yet which are essential for pve and a nice-to-have option for non-fleet pvp. Once again, no one is arguing that Scorch isn't a great ammo, it is unlikely to survive in its current form after the laser rebalance, but having one ammo and gun type for a race isn't a choice or good balance.



Amarr ships at all other levels, frigs, destroyers, cruisers, BCs, receive a huge bonus to their cap that all of a sudden stops at the BS level. Do those other levels have a "myriad of other balance issues" and Amarr domination?



Both of those are great points and have been brought up before in this thread.

Haven't CCP said there will be an overhaul ?
You don't deserve more answers.