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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2501 - 2013-05-08 08:55:55 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:

5 or 10 seconds is not advantage, it's a loss of DPS for anyone else. And we're not talking about swtitching from MF to Gleam. Yeah, go guess, there's people who know how to actually use lasers, and not just fit MF and wonder, why they can't kill anything.


Lets say you are gate camping and you have spy in the system before the camp. You are flying arty fleet and see amarr ship enter the gate. Depending on how many jumps there are can have up to 3-5 minutes to change your ammo and your alpha will be all the more nightmare. Yes reloading in middle of the foght is loss of DPS. Changing ammo in advance = god fire.

Plus even with lasers the cycle lags very often for me that it goes over the cycle up to 1-2s anyway. So we have reload time its called lag.
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
#2502 - 2013-05-08 09:18:49 UTC
I am quite excited by these changes (in combination with the changes to Large Lasers) and cannot wait to try out the new Amarr ships on the testserver.

Depending on that, perhaps CCP will change other things, perhaps not.

Its going to be interesting to fly those changed vessels.
Especially the Armageddon sounds like lots of fun.

And the Apocalypse sounds better as well.

-

One thing that turned me off from the Amarr ships is that they were all the same;
Laserboats with capacitator-problems or capacitator bonusses.

Now we have a dedicated Combat-BS, one Laser-Attack BS and one Drone/drain BS.

-

Life will be interesting for Amarr pilots.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2503 - 2013-05-08 09:42:25 UTC
Meghel wrote:
I am quite excited by these changes (in combination with the changes to Large Lasers) and cannot wait to try out the new Amarr ships on the testserver.

Depending on that, perhaps CCP will change other things, perhaps not.

Its going to be interesting to fly those changed vessels.
Especially the Armageddon sounds like lots of fun.

And the Apocalypse sounds better as well.

-

One thing that turned me off from the Amarr ships is that they were all the same;
Laserboats with capacitator-problems or capacitator bonusses.

Now we have a dedicated Combat-BS, one Laser-Attack BS and one Drone/drain BS.

-

Life will be interesting for Amarr pilots.


No, no it wont.

sicne the geddon is being forced on us as a missile ship for battleships, sicne we wont have enough cap to be viable in PvP on the battleship level, and in order to GET the cap to be viable, youll have to sacrifice tank or fiepower (and in the chance of not max fitting skills, you will have to sacrifice both to get your cap to manageable levels).

so yeah, gallente? buffs
minmatar? soem tweaks
caldari? buffs
amarr? nerfs across the board
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2504 - 2013-05-08 09:47:08 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:
You can only advocate for changes that directly affect you and your play style?
No, but you shouldn't advocate for changing things working as intended. You shouldn't advocate for streamlining races.

Yes beams are broken, but the proposed changes should fix them IMO.
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
#2505 - 2013-05-08 10:05:58 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
No, no it wont.

sicne the geddon is being forced on us as a missile ship for battleships, sicne we wont have enough cap to be viable in PvP on the battleship level, and in order to GET the cap to be viable, youll have to sacrifice tank or fiepower (and in the chance of not max fitting skills, you will have to sacrifice both to get your cap to manageable levels).

so yeah, gallente? buffs
minmatar? soem tweaks
caldari? buffs
amarr? nerfs across the board


Well, the Armageddon is a Drone Boat. With A Secondary Bonus to Energy Neuts and Vamps.
Its not a Missile ship.
Please get the facts correct.
You can fit missiles but it has no bonus to them.

You will have 4 mediums for Capacitor Boosters and 7 for Tank.
Not enough cap ? You are not even using turrets on the Armageddon, so please, cap is the last of your problems.
If you think you will have a low cap, fit Large Vampires.

-

It is quite interesting to see these Battleship threads.

Loads of persons are whining that THEIR race gets nerfed and the OTHERS get Buffed or Tweaked.
Amarr players are not different.

Luckily we have the Testserver coming up.
So please try out the new ships and make video's.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#2506 - 2013-05-08 12:06:24 UTC
Meghel wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
No, no it wont.

sicne the geddon is being forced on us as a missile ship for battleships, sicne we wont have enough cap to be viable in PvP on the battleship level, and in order to GET the cap to be viable, youll have to sacrifice tank or fiepower (and in the chance of not max fitting skills, you will have to sacrifice both to get your cap to manageable levels).

so yeah, gallente? buffs
minmatar? soem tweaks
caldari? buffs
amarr? nerfs across the board


Well, the Armageddon is a Drone Boat. With A Secondary Bonus to Energy Neuts and Vamps.
Its not a Missile ship.
Please get the facts correct.
You can fit missiles but it has no bonus to them.

You will have 4 mediums for Capacitor Boosters and 7 for Tank.
Not enough cap ? You are not even using turrets on the Armageddon, so please, cap is the last of your problems.
If you think you will have a low cap, fit Large Vampires.

-

It is quite interesting to see these Battleship threads.

Loads of persons are whining that THEIR race gets nerfed and the OTHERS get Buffed or Tweaked.
Amarr players are not different.

Luckily we have the Testserver coming up.
So please try out the new ships and make video's.


Well hello there developers alt!

In the tier 3 battleship lineup Amarr together with Caldari are the losers. Hyperion got buffs it needed and then some, making it borderline op. The best and most used tier 3 Maelstorm, both in pve and pvp, remained unchanged.

As far as assault battleship go, Apocalypse has worst tank, worst speed, worst damage up to 30km, capacitor problems. Both of its bonuses are highly situational. Everything it can do Mega and Tempest do better. In the old Apocalypse i could fit Tracking computer in the mids and tracking rig if i wanted tracking and i would still have more cap than i have now when i have to fit discharge rigs. Old Apocalypse would wipe the floor with new one.

Armageddon had the dumbest possible bonus. Large neuts already have the range to do what they need to do, range bonus wont make a difference in 99% situations.

Every damn ship got capacitor buff, Amarr dont have any capacitor advantage on battleship level even compared to ships that fire missile weapons. Is Maller op because it has 2x the capacitor of Caracal? Even if Abaddon gets a cap buff it deserves and can replace one discharge rig with resistance nerf if you put trimark in there you will have 1.5k more ehp than you have now.

Give Amarr battleships cap advantage they have in smaller hulls. It wont break anything.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2507 - 2013-05-08 12:20:51 UTC
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Give Amarr battleships cap advantage they have in smaller hulls. It wont break anything.

Cap disadvantage of the Abaddon is intended, and the Apocalypse have the best cap of all BS.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2508 - 2013-05-08 12:35:53 UTC
Meghel wrote:
[quote=Nariya Kentaya]No, no it wont.
Loads of persons are whining that THEIR race gets nerfed and the OTHERS get Buffed or Tweaked.
Amarr players are not different.


Except Gallente got their BS's updated in less than a day to be borderline OP while Amarr have by far the most complaints and suggested modifications and received no meaningful feedback.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2509 - 2013-05-08 12:41:17 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Give Amarr battleships cap advantage they have in smaller hulls. It wont break anything.

Cap disadvantage of the Abaddon is intended, and the Apocalypse have the best cap of all BS.


Um no the Hyperion does but why let facts get in the way. It has a higher total cap and the difference in recharge rate is marginal relative to the cap draw in the Apoc's weapons versus the Hyperion. It isn't even close.

Way to phrase the argument the way you like to read it. He's calling for Amarr to be given a larger cap like they have in the smaller ships to somewhat compensate for the obnoxious cap draw of their weapons. It obviously isn't making them OP in the smaller ships yet the BS's all have roughly the same cap for like ships.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2510 - 2013-05-08 12:49:44 UTC
Meghel wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
No, no it wont.

sicne the geddon is being forced on us as a missile ship for battleships, sicne we wont have enough cap to be viable in PvP on the battleship level, and in order to GET the cap to be viable, youll have to sacrifice tank or fiepower (and in the chance of not max fitting skills, you will have to sacrifice both to get your cap to manageable levels).

so yeah, gallente? buffs
minmatar? soem tweaks
caldari? buffs
amarr? nerfs across the board


Well, the Armageddon is a Drone Boat. With A Secondary Bonus to Energy Neuts and Vamps.
Its not a Missile ship.
Please get the facts correct.
You can fit missiles but it has no bonus to them.

You will have 4 mediums for Capacitor Boosters and 7 for Tank.
Not enough cap ? You are not even using turrets on the Armageddon, so please, cap is the last of your problems.
If you think you will have a low cap, fit Large Vampires.

-

It is quite interesting to see these Battleship threads.

Loads of persons are whining that THEIR race gets nerfed and the OTHERS get Buffed or Tweaked.
Amarr players are not different.

Luckily we have the Testserver coming up.
So please try out the new ships and make video's.





You sound like a CCP commercial. Oh well, at least they admit what they think Amarr mid slots should always be reserved for.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2511 - 2013-05-08 12:51:45 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Give Amarr battleships cap advantage they have in smaller hulls. It wont break anything.

Cap disadvantage of the Abaddon is intended, and the Apocalypse have the best cap of all BS.


Um no the Hyperion does but why let facts get in the way. It has a higher total cap and the difference in recharge rate is marginal relative to the cap draw in the Apoc's weapons versus the Hyperion. It isn't even close.

Facts. Tell me more about them please :
Hyperion :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 5,76

Apocalypse :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 7000(-500) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)

This is 3% more cap (like a cheap implant) for 25% less regen time. Facts, yes. Something a lot of people here completely ignore.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2512 - 2013-05-08 12:57:21 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Avald Midular wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
Give Amarr battleships cap advantage they have in smaller hulls. It wont break anything.

Cap disadvantage of the Abaddon is intended, and the Apocalypse have the best cap of all BS.


Um no the Hyperion does but why let facts get in the way. It has a higher total cap and the difference in recharge rate is marginal relative to the cap draw in the Apoc's weapons versus the Hyperion. It isn't even close.

Facts. Tell me more about them please :
Hyperion :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 5,76

Apocalypse :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 7000(-500) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)

This is 3% more cap (like a cheap implant) for 25% less regen time. Facts, yes. Something a lot of people here completely ignore.


Way to pull out a stat in a vacuum. Are we using arties on the Apoc?
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#2513 - 2013-05-08 13:03:16 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:
Way to pull out a stat in a vacuum. Are we using arties on the Apoc?

Stats in a vacuum ? like comparing guns capacitor use only to support the need for even more buff for example ?

I only answered one complaint : someone requested amarr BS to have the best cap. They do have the best cap. Facts support my assertion. I said nothing more, and I certainly not said it was enough here. The question of enough is a whole different subject, and to answer it, you need a fit, and I don't have one for the new apoc.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2514 - 2013-05-08 13:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Facts. Tell me more about them please :
Hyperion :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 5,76

Apocalypse :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 7000(-500) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)

This is 3% more cap (like a cheap implant) for 25% less regen time. Facts, yes. Something a lot of people here completely ignore.


Apocalypse is one ship and here is more about it.

Fact about Apocalypse ? Why fly apoc when you have ABC that is cheaper (this fact cannot be emphasized more since CCP decided to raise BS build cost!!), faster, smaller sig superior DPS and does the same job? What purpose does Apoc have? Its a flying turd nothing more nothing less. Even pre Odyssey PVE Apoc could not tank everything with 4x res modules and 1 repper. Abaddon did better, with limited range but better DPS.

Apocalypse is degrading obsolete sniper platform. Attack BS term itself is a joke. ABC is what is now. Yes, ABC can't work in every situation where BS can but the fact is that ABCs have come permanently and taking more space from BS.

The fact is that 2013 and Odyssey is blooming time for BCs. Year of the battlecruiser.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2515 - 2013-05-08 13:26:47 UTC
Theia Matova wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
[
Facts. Tell me more about them please :
Hyperion :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second: 7200 / 1250s / 5,76

Apocalypse :
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 7000(-500) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)

This is 3% more cap (like a cheap implant) for 25% less regen time. Facts, yes. Something a lot of people here completely ignore.


Apocalypse is one ship and here is more about it.

Fact about Apocalypse ? its a flying turd. Why fly apoc when you have ABC that is cheaper (this fact cannot be emphasized more since CCP decided to raise BS build cost!!), faster, smaller sig superior DPS and does the same job? What purpose does Apoc have? Its a flying turd nothing more nothing less. Even pre Odyssey PVE Apoc could not tank everything with 4x res modules and 1 repper. Abaddon did better, with limited range but better DPS.

Apocalypse is degrading obsolete sniper platform. Attack BS term itself is a joke. ABC is what is now. Yes, ABC can't work in every situation where BS can but the fact is that ABCs have come permanently and taking more space from BS.

The fact is that 2013 and Odyssey is blooming time for BCs. Year of the battlecruiser.


Even without ABC's, the Apoc is a mess. CCP Rise claims he wants to open them up to more beam usage yet gives them no increased fitting to account for it and that tracking bonus should haunt every snipers dreams.
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2516 - 2013-05-08 13:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Theia Matova
Ironic thing about apocalypse is that the updated model looks more militarized / tanky ship that Abaddon is. Yes the model looks good but the look does not simply go with its durability or purpose.

So good job on the look, yet thank you for not holding hands with the graphics and purpose of the ships.

-- EDIT --

new Apocalypse
Abaddon

Ironic is that Abaddons open front looks it could be used for small ship / drone hangar. Where Geddon does not have any place that could remotely look like hangar.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#2517 - 2013-05-08 13:33:42 UTC
Meghel wrote:

You will have 4 mediums for Capacitor Boosters and 7 for Tank.
Not enough cap ? You are not even using turrets on the Armageddon, so please, cap is the last of your problems.
If you think you will have a low cap, fit Large Vampires.



Utterly and catastrophically wrong. Why should we be forced to fit 4 Cap Boosters? the Amarrian's ideal battle tactic is firing the Photonic output of a white dwarf star at their opponents, not sneaking in to within 37.5kms and sipping their cap away, all the while hoping that some Godless, Souless Machine does the work for you.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
#2518 - 2013-05-08 14:09:28 UTC
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
[Well hello there developers alt!

In the tier 3 battleship lineup Amarr together with Caldari are the losers. Hyperion got buffs it needed and then some, making it borderline op. The best and most used tier 3 Maelstorm, both in pve and pvp, remained unchanged.

As far as assault battleship go, Apocalypse has worst tank, worst speed, worst damage up to 30km, capacitor problems. Both of its bonuses are highly situational. Everything it can do Mega and Tempest do better. In the old Apocalypse i could fit Tracking computer in the mids and tracking rig if i wanted tracking and i would still have more cap than i have now when i have to fit discharge rigs. Old Apocalypse would wipe the floor with new one.

Armageddon had the dumbest possible bonus. Large neuts already have the range to do what they need to do, range bonus wont make a difference in 99% situations.

Every damn ship got capacitor buff, Amarr dont have any capacitor advantage on battleship level even compared to ships that fire missile weapons. Is Maller op because it has 2x the capacitor of Caracal? Even if Abaddon gets a cap buff it deserves and can replace one discharge rig with resistance nerf if you put trimark in there you will have 1.5k more ehp than you have now.

Give Amarr battleships cap advantage they have in smaller hulls. It wont break anything.


Ooh, I wish I was a developers alt. Then I would be in Iceland, enjoying the Spa's and things.
And Icelandic Women are nice Cool

Armageddon has a very nice bonus.
You say dumb?

Yes, Large Neuts have a Long Range. And now you get 50% extra.
And you are complaining? Lol
The new Armageddon is amazing. Much better then the former Neutralizing/Vamp Dominix.

-

Now, lets look at the Apoc.
It gets 113 speed. The same as the Raven. It gets +19 speed, which is good.
That Debunks worse speed

It has a better tank than the Megathron (7000 vs 6500) but worse than the Tempest.
The tank of the Raven is similar.
So that debunks "Worst Tank"

Its bonusses are now Tracking and Optimal.
Situational? Sorry, it has the same tracking bonus as the Megathron.
It has Superior Optimal to the Megathron.
And you call both "situational" Lol

Now CCP will change the Large Energy weapons.
They will require less cap.

So lets first see what the feedback is from the Test Server before we start Demanding Changes.

Of course, I am sure you will do lots of testing and will give lots of feedback in the form of posts, statistics and even video's. That is the best way to provet hat the new Amarr Bs's are bad :)
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#2519 - 2013-05-08 14:13:02 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:

Even without ABC's, the Apoc is a mess. CCP Rise claims he wants to open them up to more beam usage yet gives them no increased fitting to account for it and that tracking bonus should haunt every snipers dreams.


Well honestly I would think 8 tachy would be bit OP if you could fit them with ease they are not same as other beams after all. That you have to sacrifice EHP to fit 8 is fine but that simply makes Apocalypse and Oracle to getting closer. So they are almost the same ship in almost same ship size. So basically if you want to make Apocalypse good DPS sniper platform it will have more EHP than oracle it will be slower sig won't change, worse signature resolution?. You might squeeze more DPS out of it if you really fit it good perhaps but it just becomes worse than oracle with other aspects. Oracle is the same. If you fit it for armor you need to sacrifice damage, mobility, probably range too. So they overlap -_-

I like Tachys are touchy subject.They allow you to fit 'ok' DPS to with 7 leaving one slot for utility high. But yes its bit ironic that does sniper platform need utility high? Beams and Apoc is simply broken.
Meghel
SilfMeg Mining and Transportation Co
#2520 - 2013-05-08 14:16:58 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:


Utterly and catastrophically wrong. Why should we be forced to fit 4 Cap Boosters? the Amarrian's ideal battle tactic is firing the Photonic output of a white dwarf star at their opponents, not sneaking in to within 37.5kms and sipping their cap away, all the while hoping that some Godless, Souless Machine does the work for you.



Forced to fit 4 cap boosters? Where did i Say that?

4 Medium Slots to fit the Holy Trinity of PVP AND a Cap Booster.
If you need more than 1, you are doing it wrong.

Utterly and Catastrophically wrong?
Well, I guess Curses needs to be changed to BEAM platforms.
And Pilgrims Too.
And of course Dragoons.

Please put that forward in Features and Ideas Section and good luck while everyone will burn you with that Photonic Output of a White Dwarf Star (+1 for description by the way).

Have fun Cool