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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#2181 - 2013-04-30 21:14:24 UTC
"Just drop turrets" doesn't make sense. Why forcing choices? I'm flying a 'geddon with six turrets, while it could field seven. Now, what? I have all I need for a specific task at hand, in a balance of offense and defense that suits my needs. If I need something else, I can do it in a different way.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#2182 - 2013-04-30 21:15:23 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Having 2 8 turret BS's for the race with triple the cap cost just to fire your weapons and absurdly more PG to fit them is a cruel joke


Moreso when other race's Battleships are actively having turrets removed, and their damage bonuses buffed to compensate, specifically for the purpose of alleviating cap use.

No other race have oversized long-range turrets.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2183 - 2013-04-30 21:17:27 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Having 2 8 turret BS's for the race with triple the cap cost just to fire your weapons and absurdly more PG to fit them is a cruel joke


Moreso when other race's Battleships are actively having turrets removed, and their damage bonuses buffed to compensate, specifically for the purpose of alleviating cap use.

No other race have oversized long-range turrets.


Ah, because Tachyons are totally in the "Capital Energy Weapons" category, right? I must have missed that the last time I sifted through the Marketplace in TQ.


"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2184 - 2013-04-30 21:18:25 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Having 2 8 turret BS's for the race with triple the cap cost just to fire your weapons and absurdly more PG to fit them is a cruel joke


Moreso when other race's Battleships are actively having turrets removed, and their damage bonuses buffed to compensate, specifically for the purpose of alleviating cap use.

No other race have oversized long-range turrets.


especially ones you can't fit :)

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2185 - 2013-04-30 21:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Avald Midular
Tonto Auri wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Having 2 8 turret BS's for the race with triple the cap cost just to fire your weapons and absurdly more PG to fit them is a cruel joke


Moreso when other race's Battleships are actively having turrets removed, and their damage bonuses buffed to compensate, specifically for the purpose of alleviating cap use.

No other race have oversized long-range turrets.


What does over-sized mean? They still say Large when I look into the info window. You could argue that they're unbalanced as large turrets and my response would be "where are all the abaddon tach fleets?" if they are. The fact that nobody even tries to fit them except Nightmares doesn't really scream OP, it screams there's a fitting issues since only a 4-turret NM tries to fit and fire them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2186 - 2013-04-30 21:19:40 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2187 - 2013-04-30 21:23:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.


They're fitting them for the tank which is why they don't just fit them on Mael's.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2188 - 2013-04-30 21:26:16 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.


They're fitting them for the tank which is why they don't just fit them on Mael's.


Ok, so? The issue remains that only once race's guns are so OP that they can be cross fit to anything and win. Winmatar.

They are fitting them for the absurd alpha potential of artillery. The tank is what is called the cherry on top.

Nerf the sundae, don't nerf the cherry! *

*Kaarous quotable moment brought to you by Quafe!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2189 - 2013-04-30 21:28:26 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Avald Midular wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.


They're fitting them for the tank which is why they don't just fit them on Mael's.


Ok, so? The issue remains that only once race's guns are so OP that they can be cross fit to anything and win. Winmatar.

They are fitting them for the absurd alpha potential of artillery. The tank is what is called the cherry on top.

Nerf the sundae, don't nerf the cherry! *

*Kaarous quotable moment brought to you by Quafe!


Oh I agree but our message gets muddled once we bring in "nerf other weapons" into the thread versus simply drawing comparisons to mega-beams and how broken they are.
Gunther Nhilathok
Doomheim
#2190 - 2013-04-30 21:29:25 UTC
What the ****?! Are you just trying to get me to stop flying BS? The geddon was a great ship before. Why break it and turn it into a phoon?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2191 - 2013-04-30 21:33:40 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Avald Midular wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.


They're fitting them for the tank which is why they don't just fit them on Mael's.


Ok, so? The issue remains that only once race's guns are so OP that they can be cross fit to anything and win. Winmatar.

They are fitting them for the absurd alpha potential of artillery. The tank is what is called the cherry on top.

Nerf the sundae, don't nerf the cherry! *

*Kaarous quotable moment brought to you by Quafe!


Oh I agree but our message gets muddled once we bring in "nerf other weapons" into the thread versus simply drawing comparisons to mega-beams and how broken they are.


Yeah, that was to say something weird, I have to admit. I should have put " marks around it. I have been considering how many days straight I can say "pimp comb" on these forums (relating to the current Apoc model) without getting a reprimand for it. Thus far, 2 straight.

But seriously, it's all part of the bigger issue. In my opinion, the strong tank (it's only strength) of the Abaddon truly is not the problem. It's a long manifesto however, to explain exactly what the issue is.

Also, mega beams suck, I entirely agree. At present the only reason to fit them at all is because Tachyons are entirely impossible to fit without gimping yourself worse than if you had just slapped on Megas in the first place.

Beams in general have a similar problem.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Naso Aya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2192 - 2013-04-30 21:45:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.



Also, current Amarr is the only other race that can fit Artillery- only the Abaddon, and new Apoc, have enough powergrid for it. The tempest can fit them, but doesn't have as much Alpha as it only has 6 turret hardpoints.

Would we be willing to suffer a powergrid adjustment to the Abaddon, if it only had 6 hardpoints? I can't see CCP letting the PWG remain the same. Or rather, I can't see a reason to, if they've concluded that 102% over powergrid is "balanced".
Avald Midular
Doomheim
#2193 - 2013-04-30 21:50:55 UTC
Naso Aya wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.



Also, current Amarr is the only other race that can fit Artillery- only the Abaddon, and new Apoc, have enough powergrid for it. The tempest can fit them, but doesn't have as much Alpha as it only has 6 turret hardpoints.

Would we be willing to suffer a powergrid adjustment to the Abaddon, if it only had 6 hardpoints? I can't see CCP letting the PWG remain the same. Or rather, I can't see a reason to, if they've concluded that 102% over powergrid is "balanced".


Sure, but I wouldn't nerf it so that we're still the only race with weapons at 102% of our PG. Keep in mind the Tempest can be shield tanked requiring less PG overall.
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2194 - 2013-04-30 23:25:33 UTC
Avald Midular wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I didn't even think about it from the Arty Abaddon angle but YESS, 100% agree!

Switching at least the Abaddon to 6 turrets but keeping same damage is now an even more obvious, low risk solution:

1) Helps out the PG fitting for those that don't like being forced into Scorch to avoid PG mods/rigs
2) Don't have to spend all the mid-slots on cap modules
3) Elegant "solution" to Arty Abaddon fleets which are having huge success
4) Brushes the cobwebs off Large Beams for anything but a Nightmare
5) Having 2 8 turret BS's for the race with triple the cap cost just to fire your weapons and absurdly more PG to fit them is a cruel joke




aren't those the only ones CCP likes?

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2195 - 2013-04-30 23:26:43 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Having 2 8 turret BS's for the race with triple the cap cost just to fire your weapons and absurdly more PG to fit them is a cruel joke


Moreso when other race's Battleships are actively having turrets removed, and their damage bonuses buffed to compensate, specifically for the purpose of alleviating cap use.

No other race have oversized long-range turrets.



ever fly the rokh with 425's?Roll

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2196 - 2013-04-30 23:36:22 UTC
Calathorn Virpio wrote:
Tonto Auri wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Having 2 8 turret BS's for the race with triple the cap cost just to fire your weapons and absurdly more PG to fit them is a cruel joke


Moreso when other race's Battleships are actively having turrets removed, and their damage bonuses buffed to compensate, specifically for the purpose of alleviating cap use.

No other race have oversized long-range turrets.



ever fly the rokh with 425's?Roll


425 are secodn size of large hybrid turrets. Tachyons are 3rd size. Pay attention on what people type. Comapre the fittings of 425mm with tachyons.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2197 - 2013-04-30 23:43:39 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
"Just drop turrets" doesn't make sense. Why forcing choices? I'm flying a 'geddon with six turrets, while it could field seven. Now, what? I have all I need for a specific task at hand, in a balance of offense and defense that suits my needs. If I need something else, I can do it in a different way.



You know you can use the 8 slots with mega pulkses for another role right...?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2198 - 2013-04-30 23:49:24 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


425 are secodn size of large hybrid turrets. Tachyons are 3rd size. Pay attention on what people type. Comapre the fittings of 425mm with tachyons.


425 are the Third size of large Hybrids.
Every single Laser Beam has excessive fitting requirements pretty much, in every single size.

Hybrids have.
Dual 250.
350.
425.

Lasers have.
Dual Heavy Beam
Megabeam
Tachyon

Dual Heavy beam has more fitting requirement than a 350.
Megabeam has nearly 50% more fitting requirement than a 425. 50%! Despite being a 'smaller' size with weaker stats than the 425.
Tachyon is at about 75% more fitting requirement than a 425. And is the matching Tier.
Tachyon is also 500PG higher fitting than a 1400. Tachyons cost MORE PG than the highest alpha Arti in the game.
Calathorn Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2199 - 2013-04-30 23:53:43 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


425 are secodn size of large hybrid turrets. Tachyons are 3rd size. Pay attention on what people type. Comapre the fittings of 425mm with tachyons.


425 are the Third size of large Hybrids.
Every single Laser Beam has excessive fitting requirements pretty much, in every single size.

Hybrids have.
Dual 250.
350.
425.

Lasers have.
Dual Heavy Beam
Megabeam
Tachyon

Dual Heavy beam has more fitting requirement than a 350.
Megabeam has nearly 50% more fitting requirement than a 425. 50%! Despite being a 'smaller' size with weaker stats than the 425.
Tachyon is at about 75% more fitting requirement than a 425. And is the matching Tier.
Tachyon is also 500PG higher fitting than a 1400. Tachyons cost MORE PG than the highest alpha Arti in the game.




thanks, i just looked in-game.

seems ammar get shafted no matter what game it is Roll


dust heavies (which are ammar suits) are over priced, underpowered, and have a horrid problem fitting **** unless they have LV 5 everything.........i'm noticing a trend here....

BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX

I attended the School of Hard Nocks, the only place you will ever learn anything of value, sadly most Americans never meet the requirments to attend
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2200 - 2013-05-01 00:08:48 UTC
Naso Aya wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Pelea Ming wrote:
And, honestly, I agree overall... if CCP wants to nerf the concept of 1400 Abaddons being so heavily popular, the resist nerf won't change a thing. We need to drop it from and 8 turret boat down to 6 or 7, and just make the damage bonus pick up the slack. And obviously, this would hugely address the idiotic cap issues it has.


I just love this. If they have an issue with 1400s on an Abaddon, why not nerf the gun that is obviously good enough that *any* friggin race has the possibility of legitimately fitting them on their battleships and pwning face with?

Like someone won't just fit 1400s on the next FoTM, once they chop the Abaddon.



Also, current Amarr is the only other race that can fit Artillery- only the Abaddon, and new Apoc, have enough powergrid for it. The tempest can fit them, but doesn't have as much Alpha as it only has 6 turret hardpoints.

Would we be willing to suffer a powergrid adjustment to the Abaddon, if it only had 6 hardpoints? I can't see CCP letting the PWG remain the same. Or rather, I can't see a reason to, if they've concluded that 102% over powergrid is "balanced".

Honestly, as long as they kept it reasonable (ie, actually able to still fit it with those 6 Tachs before fitting a PG mod or rig), why not? Let's see the Abaddon seeing fleet use for it's racial weapons outside of Hellcat fleets for once!