Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Lol, this is exactly why they nerf TEs - so minnies can't have their falloff.

Seriously as a PvE vargur pilot i have to say if you find yourself having to switch ammo all the time then you're doing it wrong.

Also, if youre using a vargur in PvP . . . youre still doing it wrong . . .

So is a Cynabal/Mach hull nerf at least off the table now that you are crushing tracking enhancers?

The kiting SFI fit I have here loses 30 DPS at 22 km with barrage (from 230 down to 198) according to EFT's DPS graph.
That's almost 10% of your DPS.
An Omen with no range mods and one less damage mod by comparison gets about 370 DPS here.

Your standard Stabber which has a 7.5% falloff bonus will also lose about 10-15% of its DPS in this range compared to the Stabber with the pre-nerf tracking enhancers. 10-15% from a ship in an operating regime where there isn't that much DPS to begin with.

Let's look at this from PVE standpoint, not every minmatar player have the skills or the isk to fly Vargur or Machariel and end up getting Maelstrom. For other races we have Apocalypse, Dominix and Raven as good entry pve battleships.

In many missions there will be many rats orbiting at 50km, let's see how they compare at damage projection.

Apocalypse: 593dps with 3xHSII

Raven: 598dps with 3xBCUII

Dominix: 795dps with 3xDDAII and and 2x OTLII

Maelstrom: 348dps with 3xGyros AND 2x TEII after changes.

Where is this huge damage projection of the autocannons? When you consider that not everyone have all the skills at L5 and aren't using full T2 fit it gets even worse... If you are suggesting arties have you ever actually tried to use them for something else than alpha? they suck. With AB you can move 311m/s but even then you will be dealing subpar dps at the end of your falloff most of the time.

Long range guns often take a massive damage dump for middle ground you often get much better dps with short range guns and some TE/TCs even when shooting in falloff not to mention the tracking differences.

Its still a complete mystery to me why this change is needed in this way I've not seen any good arguement so far other than "because". It is a little odd they don't have a penalty as other low slot mods of this nature have, tho there are other exceptions to, and TCs probably need some minor tweaking to balance them with the TE tho I've not seen anyone complaining about TCs much.

I actually have about 75km range with AC's and normal ammo but with falloff i start shooting at about 40-50km anything higher is a waste of ammo, max range for frigates. Vargur can't use Arty. Who doesn't fit an afterburner on a Vargur anyway? It's still slow boating. Some ship don't even need to move to clear the entire area at much higher range. Why not nerf the Arty or ships themself instead of TE?

So if this isn't a Galente nerf then who has thought about Incursion fits? By further reducing the range of Blasters (which could BARELY reach the ~30km orbit for Vanguards even WITH Falloff unless using the horribly inferior Null) what Gallente BS's (Including the Vindi which is is really just a super Mega) will even be allowed into Incursion fleets? Hell you rarely find them being allowed in now. This will effect the Rokh as well, since missile boats are discouraged due to Incursion mechanics only paying out to the fleet that kills it first.

By reducing the TE range bonus, CCP is saying that if you want to really run Incursions your choices are Nightmare, Mach, and maybe Maelstrom, as even after the nerf the Falloff of Large ACs will still be rediculous. That's pretty crappy that in order to participate in an added part of the game that CCP will further be reducing the ship types allowed in such activities to so few choices.

In order to keep this nerf and still allow blaster boats some ability to get into non-friend Incursion fleets how about you just reduce the orbit range to say 22-25km. This would allow you to screw Minmatar while not removing ANY chance that players still had to run Incursions in a Gallente BS.

EDIT: TBH this is expected in MMOs. Devs get tired of hearing whiny ass pansies crying about something that is OP in PvP so they vow to nerf it, not bothering to think about the PvE consequences. Once the change launches they have to scramble to hotfix it when the PvE issues come to light, thus screwing up the change for PvP and round and round we go.

Edit2: One possible harmful side effect of the desire to "balance" i.e. nerf PvP is that dare I say it Incursion BS's may have to start fitting long range weapons instead of short range like Railguns... sorry, I threw up in my mouth a little there... which would make Incursions PAINFULLY slow.

You hit the nail right on the head there mate.

If you feel like beeing pushed around while trying to creep up the backside of some PVE FC then maybe try to start your own thing. And maybe think about how bad 5% less isk/hour really is.

BTW have you ever thought about what happens to your ISK/hour rate when suddenly everyone stops doing PVP in eve?

Ah nvm, just keep doing what the quote says, that requires way less drive anyway...

Well, when you finally decide to buff gallente class ships to make them worth to fly u nerf TEs to get them back where they were before. Another excellent example how u CCPs dont unerstand this game. Instead of nerfing specific ammo type - to get an optimal balance between ships / races, is way better to nerf tracking enhancers that affects all ships and races.

Again "Good Job" CCPs