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[Odyssey] Module Rebalancing Part One: RSBs and TEs

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Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#741 - 2013-03-28 22:05:52 UTC
^^^ All Im saying is 90% of my kills are because people are to stupid to do what their FC says. CCP just made that 33.33% harder to keep range kill and not get caught.
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#742 - 2013-03-28 22:44:36 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
I like how this nerf does next to nothing to blob nagas and such, but is yet another change that makes small gang pvp more difficult. (Sort of like most of the tiericide changes)

Quote:


We have not forgotten solo pilots, even though this ship class does make things somewhat harder for them.


Quote:
I am aware that any expansion of logistics capability in eve makes things harder for solo players, and we are endeavoring to make sure that these frigates add options to combat instead of taking them away.



Quote:
I understand how much solo players rely on killing key enemy ships fast and how anything that helps gangs keep their ships alive is going to make solo harder.
In the end I believe that the stats on these ships will make them managable for solo and small gangs to face.



Pretty much every new thread from fozzie has him saying "I know this makes solo pvp harder but I think its ok"

Baby run for CSM and you got my vote.

what a shame CCP Fonzie
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#743 - 2013-03-28 23:22:26 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Octoven wrote:


So enthrall me with your almighty wisdom as to why shield tanking trumps armor?


What?
I could do a dissertation length document on why they're better and ways to change armor ships to compensate.

I can't believe you actually asked that.

As someone who has flown a variety of hulls (caldari, amarr, and minnie) with either shield or amor tank on them (yes, that includes armor on cald and shield on amarr) I can say that neither is better then the other overall, it's more a matter of what you intend to use the ship for that dictates which version of a tank is better for it.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#744 - 2013-03-28 23:32:40 UTC
Lina Halid wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:


TE's make long range weapons unnecessary because it makes it so you can kite using blasters, pulses, and autocannons.
Sorry your railguns can't reach past hard coded lock range anymore.


Hm, care to support these your words by any examples? As far as I understand the main problem of railguns isn't reach, but tracking. Which said TE nerf won't help to.

actually, it's specifically stated that the tracking speed bonus of the TE is being left untouch, so explain to me how this will be a negative for the tracking of your rail guns?
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#745 - 2013-03-28 23:37:15 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Boris Amarr wrote:
Nerf TE is a terrible idea! It is mean nerf ALL amarr ships. Amarr ships doesn't have med slots for tracking computers, because they need MVD, point (scramble or tracking disruptor) and cap booster. Also Amarr ships has huge capacitor usage, only EM and thermic damage, terrible bonus to capacitor use on 50% ships, terrible armor tank. And now you wand kill Amarr's optimal (that is not good). May be TE has overstate bonus to falloff but why are you going to kill optimal???



LOl Funny as ammar say they are the most nerfed, then minmatar say they are the most nerfed.. then come the gallente and say that blasters will be ruined.


Can you see people? That means its BALANCED!!!!!

Even funnier as I started this game as a pure amarr pilot and I've never used a TE on any armor tanked hull I made of that race and have done quite well thank you very much.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#746 - 2013-03-29 00:53:02 UTC
Lin Fatale wrote:

and for what? what do we get in return?
I cant see that this nerf is fixing anything besides a bad feeling of a dev that maybe the TE is a bit OP

I would like to get a clear answer, what will be the advantage of this nerf.


Some advantages:

1. Fozzie will be happy again and smiling.
2. Pandemic Legion will also be happy.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#747 - 2013-03-29 00:55:50 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Lin Fatale wrote:

and for what? what do we get in return?
I cant see that this nerf is fixing anything besides a bad feeling of a dev that maybe the TE is a bit OP

I would like to get a clear answer, what will be the advantage of this nerf.


Some advantages:

1. Fozzie will be happy again and smiling.
2. Pandemic Legion will also be happy.

What would PL stand to gain from this?
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#748 - 2013-03-29 01:31:23 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
PAPULA wrote:
Lin Fatale wrote:

and for what? what do we get in return?
I cant see that this nerf is fixing anything besides a bad feeling of a dev that maybe the TE is a bit OP

I would like to get a clear answer, what will be the advantage of this nerf.


Some advantages:

1. Fozzie will be happy again and smiling.
2. Pandemic Legion will also be happy.

What would PL stand to gain from this?

He's a moron who can't do anything other then spout of random nonsense about his pet paranoid delusion, ignore him.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#749 - 2013-03-29 07:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Destoya
maCH'EttE wrote:
maCH'EttE wrote:


Baby run for CSM and you got my vote.


what a shame CCP Fonzie




Do you often quote yourself in support of your own points?
raz1980
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#750 - 2013-03-29 07:15:24 UTC
CCP is broken time for a fixEvil
Martin0
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#751 - 2013-03-29 08:25:24 UTC
I <3 CCP Fozzie Big smile
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#752 - 2013-03-29 09:06:47 UTC
I'm thinking of an alternative solution.


Why not remove the tracking bonus of Tracking Enhancers(yes I know it goes against the name) and return optimal and falloff bonus back to current levels?

I mean really the tracking bonus is largely obsolete compared to tracking computers that give a big bonus. Not to mention tracking computers can change bonuses on the fly in exchange for cap usage.
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#753 - 2013-03-29 09:17:32 UTC
Fozzie, do you have any plans to tweak tracking disruptors now that you have tweaked the tracking enhancers?

We know that the TD's were quite powerful before but with this change to TE's do you feel the TD's have been allowed to become a bit too strong?
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#754 - 2013-03-29 09:44:40 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
Fozzie, do you have any plans to tweak tracking disruptors now that you have tweaked the tracking enhancers?

We know that the TD's were quite powerful before but with this change to TE's do you feel the TD's have been allowed to become a bit too strong?


Yeah - I was gravitating towards Missiles - almost exclusivly after the TDs. Now that this has happened - I'll want to move more towards missiles. I wish Minmatar had faction missiles in their LP stores. Also will the Stabber be revisited now - as this will bury the Stabber.
Connall Tara
State War Academy
Caldari State
#755 - 2013-03-29 09:52:37 UTC
Claire Raynor wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
Fozzie, do you have any plans to tweak tracking disruptors now that you have tweaked the tracking enhancers?

We know that the TD's were quite powerful before but with this change to TE's do you feel the TD's have been allowed to become a bit too strong?


Yeah - I was gravitating towards Missiles - almost exclusivly after the TDs. Now that this has happened - I'll want to move more towards missiles. I wish Minmatar had faction missiles in their LP stores. Also will the Stabber be revisited now - as this will bury the Stabber.


you mean in that other thread a few stickies down where the stabber is receiving a 25M3 dronebay and an improved fall off bonus from 7.5% to 10% per level?

why yes... yes it has :>

Naomi Knight - "You must be CCP Rise alt , that would explain everything"
feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#756 - 2013-03-29 10:18:19 UTC
Positive changes in my opinion.

Remote SEBO changes: Overdue and very welcome. Lazy instalock T3 camps with bonused scrams & webs seem to be spreading like a cancer, anything to mitigate this is great.
Have you thought about keeping the current bonus but altering the modules so a ship can only receive benefits from a single Remote SEBO? I wonder if this might be a better way to balance the issue. (but have no idea what it entails from a coding point of view)

TE changes: Don't get me wrong, I love TEs, I really do, but if I'm honest I think they have been somewhat overpowered since their huge buff some years ago. At less than half the fitting cost of a damage mod you can project your firepower some 30% farther. Bargain!
I think there are other changes that need addressing sooner, but this change should shake things up a bit and hopefully skew the meta away from kitey fits. I have to admit, when I find myself kite fitting Omens as they are just plain better as shield tanked kiters you know something is a bit askew.

The points about TDs mentioned by others earlier in the thread are valid though and need to be addressed. They are somewhat OP when fitted to non bonused ships right now. A decrease of 48% to tracking or range from a completely unbonused ship is rather a lot in my opinion. I think TDs on unbonused ships should work out around 30% when scripted to bring them into line with other EWAR modules.

Any plans to do so CCP?

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#757 - 2013-03-29 11:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Claire Raynor
Connall Tara wrote:
Claire Raynor wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
Fozzie, do you have any plans to tweak tracking disruptors now that you have tweaked the tracking enhancers?

We know that the TD's were quite powerful before but with this change to TE's do you feel the TD's have been allowed to become a bit too strong?


Yeah - I was gravitating towards Missiles - almost exclusivly after the TDs. Now that this has happened - I'll want to move more towards missiles. I wish Minmatar had faction missiles in their LP stores. Also will the Stabber be revisited now - as this will bury the Stabber.


you mean in that other thread a few stickies down where the stabber is receiving a 25M3 dronebay and an improved fall off bonus from 7.5% to 10% per level?

why yes... yes it has :>


Awesome! Thanks for the update - this has cheered me up! - [edit having read all these threads - I came here from another part of the forum] the drone bay won't do squat as they are now useless for missions but the 10% is epic for the fall off.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#758 - 2013-03-29 12:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
I completely disagree with the TE nerf.
I cant see in what way it was OP, the module was just doing his job.
"Rebalancing" doesnt mean "Change everything".
Cause its the feeling i have when i see what you do Mr Fozzie.
Hellakhanasos
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#759 - 2013-03-29 12:33:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellakhanasos
Ganthrithor wrote:
Hellakhanasos wrote:
Venustas Blue wrote:
If your fighting at 0, say in scram & Webb range to be doing affective damage, theres no way to disengage say if your off gate. Unless your ****** fit with stabs or possibly AB fit and able to burn out. The more powerful ship or better counter fit ship will always win. You will not have the ability granted to kiting ships to disengagde by either burning away, or causing the hostile to lose point by pulsing MWD on cross axis so they burn out of range & lose point, allowing you to warp out. There's little skill in fighting at 0 (scram/Webb) range, nerfing TEs kiting ability, wich is an art and skill its self would be yet another mistake by CCP, and a great loss as far as skill goes for the game.
There is counters to kiting ships, & as far as minnie ships go, they have already been nerfed enough, dont ruin it by overstepping a reasonable current mark & success. This proposed change to TEs needs to be scrapped. All it would do is subject eve to yet a other nerf of making the game ever easier, this does not inspire anybody to become better within tactics and situational awareness, it only acts to dumb it down, even giving more reason to blob, and there should be no further reason given to blobbing WHAT SO EVER. Should be promoting skill and fun gfs instead.
Sometimes it becomes very apparent CCP are out of touch with the game and its tactics, this is as good as any example.
A resounding NO to TE nerf from me.


After sifting through the turd of many prior posts over the last couple of pages. This is more of less spot on.


Yeah basically this.


CCP going to do a boo boo again. Is there any point in this thread they don't listen to anything except for what they want to hear, and there are many in eve that have the skill of a FA pilot (no skill at all) wich gives this nerf a huge benifit to the aweful pvp'rs, and the blob yet another benifit. Gives the vet, budding pvp'rs who have skill in kiting less chance still when fighting outnumbered ranging from solo all the way to the biggest of fleet fights. If you have the Pvp ability of a turd this nerf will benifit you.
Fozzie how many hours per year on average do you actually genuinely play eve 4-5?
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#760 - 2013-03-29 12:42:18 UTC
One thing that will happen - is people using EFT and not using TEs because Gyros make the numbers bigger - are now probably doing it right.