Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Okay, I'm confused. On the one hand you have to treat them as if they are NOT AFK aren are going to kill you, but on the other they are absolutely not there to kill you, but to deny you resources.

I'm sensing a mixed message here on yor part Lucas. Maybe you can pound this square peg into the round hole for us and reconcile these rather contradictory claims.

Again Lucas you very much appear to be wanting to have your cake and eat it too. You have argued again, that the AFK cloaker is not there to get kills...but he might kill you, and thus you have to treat him as if he is always active.

Might I suggest you just drop the claims that AFK cloakers aren't after kills. That might not be the primary reason for AFK cloaking, but it very well could be a secondary reason.

And yes, if an AFK cloakers does on occassion kill a null dweller, removing them reduces kills in null sec. You yourself have said they sometimes get a kill. Preventing AFK cloakers means that they from that point forward they wont get kills. It may not be huge...but to claim contrary is what has you all tied up in knots trying to reconcile irreconcilable positions.

Pick one and go with it.

Well, since Lucas is not going to respond anymore (although we'll see, this topic seems to draw him back )....

AFK cloakers will, on occasion check in. For example, one might get up early, log in, get safe, activate the cloak, set a random direction and go AFK. Then come home and see what is going on. He is now technically no longer "AFK", but if there is an opportunity for a kill he may take it if it is feasible so that it will make further AFK cloaking all the more successful.

This is why Lucas is right, it is often smart to just treat the AFK cloakers as if he is no longer AFK.

However, it is also apparent that AFK cloaking can lead to kills. People make a decision and decide that the risk of undocking and doing something in the camped system is worth the risk....and then that one time the guy is not AFK and there is a new entry on the KBs.

You yourself have said that people go to neigboring systems, not "take their chances" in a camped system. No AFK does not get more kills. It does not, by definition, do ANYTHING. And for those who interact in anyway with their client on at least an hourly basis, neither does an auto-logoff.

For the sake of sanity, Nikk Narrel, will you please stop telling Lucas what he wants and thinks.

When you first mentioned this idea, it was out of the blue, for he never said he should have it. You assumed that when even after an hour, the most anyone could know is whether the interactions for the previous hour were greater than or less than 1 click or key press; far from instant or accurate intel, the delay is about an hour which is far worse than the time delay on the Eve map stats.

He never claimed that. I have been quite clear that I could care less about what a player is doing. In fact, much of the time I would rather not know what each player is doing at their keyboard (if you catch my drift).

Lastly, many points have been made against your local changes proposal, chiefly the complete destruction of pve wherever the changes may occur. Also, I have no interest in any of the gimps to cloakies that has been proposed; except my proposals to prevent the simultaneous fitting on both the regular cyno and any kind of cloak.

As we consider the primary reason why anyone cares about that solo cloaky camping an entire system owned by someone else with impunity, that reason falls directly to the cyno. While I have avoided discussing or addressing changes that affect the covert cyno, it is clear that regular cyno brings the greatest threat of all to any fleet, alliance, or even coalition (depending on what is on the other side, which cannot be known either). Simply addressing the cyno threat would be enough to resolve this thread and many other concerns of hostiles traveling deep through space owned by others with seeming impunity as if the ownership of space meant NOTHING. The auto-logoff resolves the afk cloaky issue but not the cloaky cyno issue. The cloaky cyno solution resolves both the afk cloaky issue and the cloaky cyno issue and many other cyno issues.

!!! So if there is any interest in resolving the afk cloaky issue, then the solution should be directed at something which addresses the auto-logoff, the cloaky-cyno/cyno, or both. Solutions based on changes to "Local" address neither of those subjects and will not bring any real resolution of these core issues. I must admit that the complete disconnection (both ways) from local by the cloak does seem interesting so long as local records all disconnects and catches even brief periods of being uncloaked, but it will not fix anything. !!!

I support that, lets remove afk cloaking, sounds cool to me.

Does anyone know a corp that would want to recruit a 62m SP combat pilot?

I also can fly a retriever.

This right here is the entitlement I was talking about. See how you keep going on about what you WANT and how the game mechanics should be changed to give you what you WANT for free. That is entitlement bro, and it has no place in balance or game mechanics.

I've covered this several times. If you are too goddamn ignorant to bother reading that's YOUR problem.

WANTING is not entitlement. The only thing I'm ENTITLED to here is my opinion without some random troll telling me I have NO RIGHT to have my opinion and telling me that things are SUPPOSED to be the way they say. Nikk is basically saying I have no right to ask for anything, and local is SUPPOSED to be delayed.
Are you also saying I'm not entitled to hold my own opinion on the matter?

EDIT: I'm not actually sure you know what entitlement is... Are you just saying that because you read some other people saying it in other threads and though it sounds cool?

No, I want a SINGLE mechanic changed that would only stop people AFK cloaking, not negatively affecting active players but preventing the exploit of an old mechanic.
Entitlement would be if I thought my playstyle was so important, that I would demand changes to keep my playstyle regardless of the detriment to other players. Like for example how Nikk is stating his local changes are the way it's supposed to be, and how what I do is wrong, and I need to just shut up and deal with it. That's entitlement. I'm only looking for changes that help the game.
Bear in mind, I'm also happy for things to remain as they are. I simply refuse to accept that a buff to cloaking is what this game needs. You are a cloaker, you want to buff your own playstyle, regardless of how it affect others, and you troll anyone with a differing opinion. So who is the entitled one?

You also refuse to show any evidence that the removal of AFK cloaking would cause me to be any safer. All it would do is prvent whole areas of null being shut down by alts. That won't change how often people die to an active cloaker, in fact if anything it's likely to increase the chances of your kills as people won;t be perma-docked as much, giving you more opportunities to catch people.

Lucas, I have lost count of how many times I and others have explained how these silly ideas are more of a nerf to active players than AFK players. They prevent ACTIVE players from trying to 'trick' residents into thinking they are safe when they are not, or thinking they aren't safe when they are. It destroys ACTIVE players from being able to do that.

As for your "safety" - I've always argued that afk players aren't threats, but the issue is the massive, one sided removal of uncertainty. The "real" risk you're exposed to may not be any different, but the fact of the matter is you will now know with absolute certainty what that level is for zero effort.

You have also failed to offer any explanations or suggestions as to how these ideas would be balanced. It is very, very clear that hunters and active cloakers would be getting nerfed into the ground, and their abilities reduced. That is not true for the "other side" - the residents. They are giving up nothing, in fact their playstyles are being buffed and expanded. That is by definition imbalanced.

And the reason you want this is because you think you are entitled to know, with zero effort and with perfect certainty, exactly how big of a threat someone in local is. Well you're not entitled to that, sorry chump.

Just obviously people WHO claim afk cloaking is good as it is are not the sharpest arrows in the quiver and simply keep selling "bbooooo" to any change offered...

So this should be explained really really plain and simple...

What does the afk cloaker "actually do" while he is afk cloaking ?? He does not even need to be in the same city with the computer WHO is sitting there !! We all hate BOT's as they claim they hate too... So please list me 1 dmned difference between a BOT and a Cloaky afk camper except that the BOT might be making a few million iskies per hour... Ah also what does the afk cloaker "risk" ?? NOTHING...

Very easy solution is just make cloaks need to be re*activated every 10 cycles, or 20 or 50 for that matter... So u need to do some Dualboxing if you really love afk camping soo much...

But nah they say no to that because simply leaving an alt in that system and having to Multibox is too much... Just let leave on afk alt in some system and play eve as much as u like ... I dare say u need to prove you are playing the game mr... As if only by re*activating your cloak every few mins or cycles .

I hope this was simple enough