Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That is my point, the anti-AFK cloaking side of the argument want to give up nothing, yet get a buff. Anything other than this is wildly unfair.

If they want the ability to hunt down and "PvP" and AFK cloaker, then they should have to give up something in return. If not, then stop posting and accept the status quo. Stop asking for free stuff.

I don't honestly believe that happens on any measurable scale. I should imagine more people bounce on rocks trying to warp out that the number that are desensitised by an AFK cloaker. Bear in mind not everyone doing PVE or Mining with a cloaker in system is desensitised, most will simply be either too stupid to realise or simply don't care.
Clearly though nothing said here is EVER going to matter, since you think it OK to benefit from being AFK. That's what this all boils down to. You want the benefit of AFK players having an effect, to make your scout ship more viable as a combat ship, because you refuse to simply use a combat ship for PvP, and without that, you want a programmed mechanic change to make you more viable without them.
You keep inflating this up to be some massive change that will cause PVE players and miners to be massively buffed, but it''s not. I can continue to move when there's a cloaker in system, so the change to me, and most other PVE/Miners is practically zero. If the choices are:
a) change something that affects only the AFK cloakers, removing them from the equation.
b) change something that makes cloakers considerably more difficult to avoid.
obviously I'm going to go with A. I don't want scout ships to be more viable combat ships, making regular combat ships redundant in null. Currently you'll see a lot of cynabals, and various other ships, because they know they can get in fights, rather than make everyone leave. I don't really like the idea of every single player being in a cloaky T3, because they get a super invisibility buff.

That is a laughable straw man argument.

The punchline being, if yes, go move to a wormhole.

How about this.

You can hunt cloaked vessels, but everyone entering system is delayed 60 seconds before local reports them.

Players can still be proactive, and clear every system in their sov space to boot, which gives that 60 seconds more room if effort is on the table.
Something they cannot do right now, with any cloak preventing this.

Undetectable?

What part of "hunt cloaked vessels" seems to leave them undetectable?

And no, mining and ratting ships could do this just fine, they simply need to scan space instead of staring at a chat list.

How about we add 2 new probes. The first has a fast scan time that is "fast" but it only tells you if a cloaked vessel is in system. The second has a longer scan time and will give you a potential warp in. If the target is moving you might miss him, but a couple of scans you'd get a direction and with an inty or two you'd probably decloak him and could kill him if he is AFK, which he probably is if he is moving in a straight line and seems unaware of the probes giving away his location.

Of course, I expect this to do nothing to the anti-AFK position as they want certainty and are unwilling to give up local as a crutch.

Let me explain it:

1. When you are in a given system local works in your favor.
2. AFK cloaking may induce a miner/ratter to move systems.
3. Unless they have a scout, moving is when a ratter/miner is most vulnerable.
4. If AFK cloaking makes a miner/ratter move then it puts that miner/ratter at significantly greater risk.
5. Do it enough you'll see miner/ratters dying.
6. Mission Accomplished.

Oh and of course, some people will just undock and start doing stuff figuring that guy in local is always there, and hence not a problem. Is it dumb? Yeah, sure, but I have been looking at KBs and christ there are some real dummies out there going by their fits.

Probes to hunt them down?

Really, are you reading the thread? They are giving up a main part of their defense if they are not active.

Jesus....

Oh yes. An active PvE ship should be just like a ship with a cov ops cloak fitted and active. They should be allowed to earn millions of isk/hour and not be scannable. That is very reasonable.

Oh to heck with it, lets just give PvE ships a billion HP and set their resists for all damage at 99.999% and make them totally invulnerable to all forms of EWAR while we are at it too.

That seems balanced.

So should we just remove local and add probes then?
damn you guys keep talking here... I was away only for few days and theres like 20 new pages.

And yeah, you could fit an improved cloaking device to your rifter or whatever and then a SeBo with a script...you'd get back close to the original locking time (1.6 vs. 1.5 seconds), but one problem Andy...you can't warp cloaked. So that whole time you are warping you'd be visible in local. And why would you cloak when you land on grid? And you'd still be gimping your ship since without that cloak you'd have a lock time of 1 second with the scripted SeBo...which could be handy if you do manage to land on grid with that target. That 0.6 seconds could be the difference between having a kill and watching him warp off to safety.

Edit: I have made my views quite plain, and you know that Andy. Hence your continual straw man arguments and dubious questions.