Player Features and Ideas Discussion

They want to remove cloakers from local, so you won;t be able to escape until they are already on you, since they won't be visible until they are right next to you.

A core part of the game is the uncertainty of a player status. I can be either AFK or not - you woldn't know. No one would know.
I could hang i cloak, sit docked, float under a POS field... ignoring everone and having no one know where to expect me warping, answering a convo etc. etc. That's the part you want to change, because someone violated your 99%_safety_status.

Since every one is paying for and active subscription either with RL moneyz or with his own time and ISK - there won't ever be a discrimination between AFK and ACTIVE states, just as there aren't between PVE and PVP, and WILLING TO PVP AND UNWILLING TO PVP.



And you're not aligned when that happens?!??? Tsk Tsk, that's not nullsec for you ...

This is what happens when to risk-averse groups have conflicting interests. AFK cloaker aka cyno alt prefers pure ganking to fighting, and PVE players in general are incapable of handling uncertainty (that's why the shoot predictable rats all day long).

Since you can't turn bears into normal people, you can only change mechanics- let's change bridging ships so that they can only pull other ships instead of pushing them through a bridge. Which means the blops or titan always jumps first, then the other ships jump to it.

Well continue to support non playing players then. The only problem is, that AFK playing, combined with market bots, scam bots, mining bots will eventually see eve go the way of diaspora, where eventually more players are inactive alts and bots than anything else.
And AFK cloaker can pick and chose when to be AFK, and chose to strike at any moment, with no warning. A POS AFKer or docked player, I can put in extra effort and observe. With a cloaker no matter how much effort I am willing to put in, they will always have the upper hand. That's the imbalance. Now I'm fine with that if the player is actively playing, but someone that's not even playing shouldn't be able to stay that way forever.

So you're not OK with removing the ability of an AFK cloaker to appear as a threat, yet you are perfectly happy to have cloakers removed from local, and will consider it my own fault if I'm caught? Surely I have the right to choose unwilling to PvP though? I have an active subscription, so that's my right. That's what you said.
And I'm more than happy to leave it as is, no changes. I move system if a cloaker pesters me, so it doesn't affect me that much, it just leave more of null empty. But since my coalition owns half of it, it's not really the end of the world. Renters are undoubtedly saddened by cloakers however.

It would practically kill it. Blops could still drop, but you wouldn't take a titan in to kill anything short of a cap fleet. Who would risk a titan to drop in on a pair of ratting battleships?
The whole idea here is to not break a massive portion of the game.

If you want to play dumb, that's your call.

Without local, a cyno being used on grid to a target is MORONIC.
The target has either no idea you are there, or has already left. At no point does the cyno on grid make sense.
Pop your buddies in, from one system over, point the target, and burn asap.
(HINT: the backup force pops in right before the point is made, because local is not broadcasting the arrival of this group)

The ONLY difference, is that if the pointing ship gets popped, the other ships still arrive if the cyno was not on grid.
WITH Local, the pointing ship opens a cyno, but if it gets popped, any ship not in transit already never arrives.

Lucas, I've not bothered quoting the post I'm responding to because the quote formatting seems to be entirely messed up, but its post 1331.

You have yet again blatantly lied and misrepresented our position. You still construct pathetic strawmen, insisting I want you to have "no chance" to evade me when I have literally stated I do want you to have that ability and chance on multiple occasions. Your continued deliberate lies demonstrate your dishonesty throughout this thread.

I want you to have the ability and the chance to evade PVP. However, I also want the other party to also have a chance at success. You yourself have literally stated you have "99%" chance to escape as a result of local, and the only effort and work you do to gain this 99% safety is looking at local.

That leaves the other person with a 1% chance of catching you, despite them having to do a lot more work than just looking at local.

And yet you're asking for the methods they use to achieve this 1% success rate be removed, and for them to have to put in even more effort for even less of a chance.

That is not balanced. That is not good game design. You constant lying about the issues and opposing arguments are tiresome, and that of a child.

Why? If you face more risk, but also benefit more why would you leave? This reinforces my belief that this is not the game for people who complain so bitterly about AFK cloakers. You have to expect to lose ships...even expensive ones from time to time. It will happen, that is the nature of this game.

Using Andy's metric, just for convenience, if the average ratting ship takes 6.5 hours to pay for, but you can expect to get 13 hours of ratting before losing it, then where is the problem.

And right now there are virtually no industrial pilots in null. Miners are rare in null. Building anything other than super capitals almost never takes place. I was reading about this topic and came across an old reference to Ascendant Horizon and their war with BoB. Ascendant Horizon believed they'd win because their ability to make BS in null far outstripped BoB's. But that was irrelevant in that BoB either made them in empire and moved them or simply bought them in empire and moved them...and BoB beat Ascendant Horizon.

Several years ago in the market discussion forum I commented that for people building in null (super caps) may not even mine much veldspar because it could be cheaper to simply buy it in empire and transport it. I didn't know much as I was still a nub to null sec then, just used my knowledge of economics and what I knew of the markets...several posts later a Goon confirmed my claim. You buy the low ends you need and "compress' them into ammo. All ammo takes up the same space, so the bigger the better and toss it in a freighter, then a JF and move it to where you are building your super where you re-process the ammo into raw ore.

My point being that industrial pilots are rare and the ones that are there are either building supers, are alts of people who got tired of doing industry in high sec (e.g. guys like me), or like the challenge of doing industry in null (e.g. mining). This is a problem, IMO, but it is one of CCP's making. They don't want null to be 100% independent of high sec (no I don't have a quote on this, but this should not be startling when you look at null and the industry options there).

Changing local and intel gathering alone probably wont do much to change this, but I think it could help at the margins. Most industrial players I've known (read the part where I did industry in high sec, I did it for a couple of years, I've known more than a few) are extremely risk averse (please don't think this is an insult). So a new way of gathering intel might induce some to move to null...maybe. But to get more industrial types into null will require more changes to the game than we currently have.

It will probably need a cultural change from most alliances. The PvP element of an alliance will have to see their industrial pilots not as a burden or something to sneer at but as a helpful part of the alliance. Building stuff the alliance needs and perhaps more cynically, seeing the presence of industrialists to some degree as "chum in the water" for PvP. With idea here is that hostile gangs would come into disrupt alliance industry operations and a response fleet would be formed to deal with it. And at the same time another alliance's industrial operations are a potential for roaming as well.

Basically, I'd like more industry and more PvP where both sides feel they are getting at least the same or more benefits to staying in high sec. Right now, roaming null can be boring as ****. I've gone on roams through Outer Ring, Syndicate and even down into Fountain and Fountain core...now what we find? **** all. Nothing. If we are lucky we might catch a dude in a noob ship running a quick errand or on a good day a guy in a cruiser or battle cruiser. Syndicate is supposed to be a place of small gang PvP...if so, Christ other places like Curse and Stain must be complete wastelands where everyone docks up at the merest whiff that somebody wants to shoot other players. Come to think of it...yeah, that is what it was like in Stain, even the "big alliances" (Red Overlord, C0ven, etc.) in that area were reluctant to do much.

Ok, this question SEEMS simple enough.

But think for a minute. What qualities define a player you WANT in null?

Clever, resourceful, someone not afraid to do the work needed.

Specifically, someone less risk averse than a high sec player, unless you simply want to pack warm bodies in as renters.
Then you might as well post ads in facebook.
[quote]

Let me add, Nikk, someone not affraid to lose ships....

And to everyone who complains about losing a ship that takes hours of ratting to pay for, yes I know what that feels like...10 times over. So, don't sit there and feel like I don't know. I do know. The thing is I didn't complain about the jump freighter loss (I even congratulated the guys who killed it on a well executed plan..well okay after sitting there for a few seconds saying, "Son of a *****!!!!"), I learned from it, and when I had set up my new system to prevent losing said ship in a similar manner, I bought a new one.

Of course you have that right, only it shouldn't be backed up by any mechanic adjustment for that need of yours.
You can mine in highsec, where those ganking you will get concorded - protected by mechanics (kind of flawed) to unwill PvP
And also i never said i wanted cloakers to be off local, i don't care about that. I am happy as it is right now, actually.
If anything, I'd like to see local gone from Nullsec
Don't care much bout renters, honestly.