Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You're just rambling now, you're not even making coherent points. Try reading what he said, what I said, and formulating a response that is intelligible. He said that he can evade people who enter system 99% of the time by doing as little as just looking at the local chat. People have found one or two ways to possibly skirt around that frankly ridiculous high chance of evasion. To respond by implying that they have not "learned to PVP" is perplexing. Either you don't comprehend what we're saying, or you're deliberately trying to smear people who have demonstrated that they HAVE learned. They have learned how to deal with broken mechanics that afford locals - in their own words - a "99%" safe environment.

As for the "active players providing intel and protection"... have you actually read anything anyone has said in this thread? I have been asking throughout the thread that the safety and protection come from players working for it. That is currently not the case - as even the industrialists and PVErs admit, they are safe "99%" of the time by doing nothing more than looking at the local chat channel, and then pressing the warp out button when it changes.

To then demand that the one way players have found to work around that be reduced or removed is nothing but entitlement. To say you already have 99% safety, and then ask for remaining uncertainties and risk to be removed demonstrates pure entitlement.



You either have remarkably poor reading comprehension, or you too are deliberately lying and misrepresenting what people have said. I have no problem with different playstyles, and have never said or implied otherwise. In fact, I have quite literally stated that I wish to maintain as many playstyles and possibilities for all different types of player - and to not REDUCE or REMOVE them. The way I play is not the "right" or "only" way, it is simply a way. You are the one asking for my way to be removed, in order to make your way easier. The hypocrisy is astounding, quite frankly.

At least your phrasing - "break cloaks" - accurately implies that they are currently working and balanced, and that your intention is to destroy that balance, and to make the mechanics broken. A tiny hint of truth shines through.

Let's educate you and gunslinger here on a few points:
1) Every encounter begins with the assumption that there will be an engagement and that the hostile ship will light a cyno. PVE ships cost 3-10 hours of ratting, so it is generally unwise to allow them to operate in an environment where a hostile pilot may discover them within 3-10 minutes (net loss). Bring a gang of pvp ships and you have a chance.
2) Only inexperienced pilots get desensitized, the rest move to another system. 3-10 minutes of ratting is not worth the PVE ship loss. Intel is checked for safe movement to another system if the hostile remains in the system for long enough. The assumption is that if the hostile is in system, he is active. Even if he is logged off, he is treated as if his log-on trick could catch someone. Only inexperienced pilots do not consider the risks of a 3-10 hour cost PVE ship for a few minutes of ratting.

So if the hidden pilot checks on his "harvest" he will find that his juicy targets are operating in another system the entire time and that he is merely wasting his time and account camping a system with a few players in station doing other stuff and keeping an eye on him to make him feel like he is having an effect on the system.

Added: Gunslinger, you are really detracting from productive discussions with all your personal attacks on others. This thread would be a lot better if you just stopped replying and started thinking about what is being said for a while.

Yes, I have, and running a new cloaky cyno pilot is not a hard task. Which means at any point I can chuck in a new character with a blank KB. Or I can kill my own alts to give me a specific type of KB. If they scram you, they can await a new point, then jump gates to clear themselves from the kill if they were really serious about it.
I'm not flying off into a rage, I just think effort should be expended on BOTH SIDES. You want no effort on your part, but huge amounts of effort on mine. That's not balanced. Why should you put in no effort, on a single character, while I have to have multiple characters covering me, and still can't clear the uncertainty of the cloaker?

By your own admission the "effort" you exert is merely looking at the local chat channel, pressing the warp button the second it changes, and this grants you, in your own words, 99% chance of successfully evading

Meanwhile, a cloaker has to obfuscate his history - whether it be with alts, or jumping through hoops to prevent his alt from appearing on killboards - organise a fleet, keep that fleet waiting and ready, make his way deep behind enemy lines, wait for god knows how long, before finally having the possibility of catching a target.

So it sounds to me like there's zero effort on your side, and plenty on mine. And you want me to have to put in more effort, and yourself to put in less?

I'd agree to that - so what can we do to increase your massive efforts in checking local and warping out with 99% safety guaranteed?

Or you could grow some balls (no offense) and look for actually pvp targets that are actually flying in space and already looking for a fight. It's not like anyone is forcing you to endlessly fixate on the easy, juicy pve targets as if you are entitled to them or something.

And on your previous quote:

There are these really cool things called bookmarks and fleet warp at distance. They don't show up on killmails, ever. They even work for blue awoxers. I'll say it again, I could care less if the hostile is AFK, he must always be treated as if he were an imminent threat, because he just may well could be. The only issue is if there is a cyno and what is on the other end of it. No cyno, then fine, let the bugger come at me at the time of his choosing. No problem at all. I probably won't even safe up regardless of the ship I am in or if I am in the middle of a pve op.

I have to be active 100% of the time. 10 seconds of looking away is long enough to get scrammed before a warp out.
A cloaker doesn't have to obfuscate his history, it's an option he can take if he wants to disguise his intentions, but by no means a requirement. The fleet is the same. If you are going after miners, a fleet isn't required. And a covops behind enemy lines is not even remotely hard. Even if you run into a dictor, you can escape nearly every time, and chances of even meeting a dictor is slim. Certainly doesn't require you to dual log, yet you expect me to have a scout and a bubble on every gate, and stay aligned? That's what your changes would require. And even then risk a logged off cloaker coming online and ganking me would be near impossible for me to stop.

All I want is for the AFK element of your cloaking, the absolute 0 effort part to be stopped, to strip a single element of uncertainty. You want to change a core part of the game so you can guarantee kills.

Whereas you want to change a core part of the game to avoid losses =)

Yes, that's right. That's why miners are given decent align times and are able to evade combat, that's their defense. Why should that defense be stripped so people can gank them more easily?

Not at all. How am I changing "a core part of the game to avoid losses"?
I want AFK players to not be able to add the illusion of a threat. That is all. Nothing more.
Since I am told that AFK players can;t hurt anybody, the removal of that will have NO EFFECT on my losses. It simply means a system can't be effectively shut down by someone that's not even playing the game. I don't like AFK miners either. As far as I am concerned, to play the game you should have to PLAY THE GAME.

And on the other side, these guys want local removed, so you only know a cloaker is there when he's already landed on you. There's a considerable difference.