Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes there are differences. WH residents deal with far greater overall risk without local, yet we manage.

You don't seem to be too against the idea. You even seem to be giving out ideas freely on how you'd do it.

There's nothing "mystic" about it. It's literally the basics of MMO cheat detection. And I proposed a single solution to the AFK issue, and even that just as a food for thought suggestion. You refuse to accept anyone else's opinions, probably because you are only here to troll. Well this is Features & Ideas. If you don't have any ideas, and are clearly clueless about a lot of things, what are you here for? Purely to launch personal attacks at me.
Go back to your bridge.

L O L
Yeah, because with local, you can't fire on a cyno ship. With local, your mates can't JB in or log in in station. Moron.

Without local, cynos would be immensely more powerful, as it's unlikely that every system would be covered with a force able to withstand the drop. WE don;t generally sit around in 40 man fleets hoping for a bit of home defense.

This has not been accepted by you in the past, but hope springs eternal.

AFK Cloaker tactics are used for one of two reasons.
1. To mess with your head. If you call their bluff, nothing happens at all. It is dubious if they even have a cyno fitted, but if they feel it works well enough, the scarecrow is meant to drive the birds from the field.

2. To desensitize pilots. Seeing the name in local for ten minutes, and the all-or-nothing style PvE player won't undock.
After 1 hour, they are still not likely to consider it.
But after 12 hours, many are willing to gamble that a hidden pilot could not possibly be active for that long, and at best they may be checking back periodically. It is human nature to assume common grounds, so if the PvE pilot was logged in consistently to notice this, and has been AFK much of the time, then the hidden pilot too must be AFK.
Expecting them to return 18 to 20 hours after they first appeared makes sense to many, so on the night side of this equation it is probably safe.
Now, if the hidden pilot checks on the crop at an odd hour, they may find a harvest ready.

They do it because it works against idiots, who insist on all-or-nothing fits.
It keeps them docked up in some cases, and on kill mails for others.
And really, isn't that what a null miner wants? Fewer competing miners sucking up the good ore.

I can tank any rats in null. No matter what fit I have, an exhumer can't tank PvP, and it's moronic to try. Evasion is the best tactic.

I don't launch personal attacks, I just expose ideas. You said that you support Idea A (pve). You said that you support Idea B (removing local). Idea B brings an end to Idea A (unless you are prepared to put an end to all cynos). You recognized that and suggested that I was calling you a liar. I responded, "maybe," it's not the first time Eve players lied to get their way. Simple as that.

Now back to finding solutions for BOTH sides of this issue: the pro-pve side and the anti-pve/anti-local side. Take a look at my previous suggestions. Give honest, objective feedback about THE IDEAS.

Local is not PvE's friend or savior.

It is exactly what enables the hostiles to find targets, and to camp systems. It dumbs down play all around, since hostiles lack the support needed to have intel regarding target presence.
Unless all hunters want to get really good at scanning, they need local.

As a miner, I have this nice intel channel. I can scan too.
If I make a better effort than a hostile, he can not get me.

That intel channel would be an amazing asset, if local were not constantly balancing it out by telling the hostile what system I'm in.

Answer this, please: How will a hostile find you in your sov space, if they don't have local tipping them off?

You could start with the in-game universe system statistics reporting tool keying on "npc's killed", followed by "players in space". No more rocket science than roaming a large group in smaller numbers to mask your true size. For a small fee, I could teach y'all how to pvp. It isn't really that hard to catch stuff, even if you ignore the easy cyno "I win" button.

Teckos Pech, here is an exact quote from you in response to my "removing local hurts pve" post:


Immediately following my claim that removing local puts a stop to pve activities, you then claim that I am calling you a liar. You clearly said that you want more pve, and that my discussion about the harm of removing local on pve somehow amounts to me calling you a liar; Never mentioned your name in that post, btw. How is a reasonable person supposed to interpret this?

That much we can agree on.

More, but making it safer isn't the only route. I know it is long, but in this thread I've consistently argued for more PvE in null in general.

Andy has pointed to the 3-10 hours of ratting ship value (lets say 500 million isk). I don't think such ships should be protected from PvP, and especially not by changes in game mechanics. At the same time I don't think such players should lose such a ship every 3-10 minutes as Andy suggests. The expected benefits for the PvE pilot should exceed the expected losses. That is, doing PvE in null should be worth while, otherwise nobody would do it.

I have argued that at the very least the current expected benefits to expected losses ratio should be preserved, but that does not mean we have to keep both the expected benefits or expected losses the same.

The thing is catching a ratter in null is not easy. They make a considerable amount of effort to minimize risk, as I have noted before. They have gotten so good at it, that yes, one result is AFK cloaking. But AFK cloaking is a symptom not the cause. Cynos are not the cause either. Cynos are used because of the same cause. The use of local as an intel tool and other precautions.

So change what is causing all these things. Change local and how intel is gathered. It is a big thing and tricky. Still if it can be done right it could make the game more interesting. And maybe give a bump to null sec PvE. After all, I want all those miners and ratters to be able to buy a new ship if their current one goes boom from time-to-time.