Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That's because a lot of null players are simply grinding isk between ops, and history tells us that most players jumping in are either considerably more equipped or uncatchable. For example If i look and it's a T3, I assume it's cloaky, nullified and move on, because I don't have 4 hours to waste chasing it around. Same if it's a bomber. I can't be bothered to waste all day trying to lure it out. Doesn't mean I won;t take a challenge though. I took on a raptor and a vagabond in my harbinger the other day (somehow I lived). Cloakers are simply too much effort for no payoff, so moving is the preferred option. I'd love that not to be the case.

We have a number of systems upgraded to play with, but sure, some people may not have that. It really doesn't make an enormous difference though unless you are hardcore ratting.

Yes, and since it's a big big issue, it won't get touched for possibly ever. Changing the issues it affects though, decoupling it from those issues would make it have less of an impact and allow some action to be taken, step by step.

I've already agreed it's a related issue. It however should be looked at separately, since it encompasses more than just cloaking, and is unlikely to be changed.

There is risk getting into system.
The second I wish to actually *do* something I must put myself at risk
When I do put myself at risk, it is mechanically greater due to the weaknesses baked into the hulls as a trade off for cloaking capabilities
and so on and so forth

Also, let me understand this... you want the ability to fight the afk cloaked player whenever you want. That's fine.

But if they want to sit in system and fight you when THEY want, that's broken and the mechanics should be changed?

So fights should only ever occur on your terms and when you want them, but not the other way around.

Sounds like risk averse hypocrisy to me bro

Whoa, I never said nerf cloaks. I'm more in favor of a probe to find cloakers, preferably something that takes time to run, and costs to cancel.
I've suggested before a probe that should cost like 50m to buy a set, takes 10 mins to run, and docking, logging off, jumping or cancelling the scan destroys the probes. If the cloaker warps off their current grid during the scan it won't find them. Active cloakers would see the probes on d-scan and warp to another grid. AFK cloakers would get decloaked at the 10 min mark and a warp in provided.
It's by no means a perfect solution, but it gets the idea of the type of change I'd be looking for. I'd want active cloakers to be as unaffected as possible.

Barely
But let's face it. You aren't going to decloak unless you find a nice juicy target with no chance of resisting. This means the only risk is a risk you would have to actively chose to take.

Erm, not quite. I want to be able to separate the AFK cloakers from active cloakers and remove the AFK ones. Active cloakers can proceed to do whatever they want. If you want to actively increase our risk, that's fine, but being able to do it just after downtime then head of to work is not what I would consider fair play. Since we don;t know if or when you will return, we have to assume you are a danger at all time's while you have to do nothing to hold that status. It's as bad as bot mining as far as I'm concerned.

Well no, it wouldn't nerf cloaking, it would nerf AFK cloaking. All you have to do in change grid and shazzam, disaster averted. You would need to be on the same grid cloaked for 10 full minutes to be found. Maybe you should read the WHOLE post before responding.
And to be honest, I don't care about the kills. It could just log them out for all I care.

Well yes, that is a problem. Just because you say "SOLVED" doesn't make it so. Your solution is like firing a nuke to swat a fly. It would have so many issues in itself, that it's impossible to implement in a way that isn't game breaking.
I get the feeling you know this, and simply suggest it because it's an impossible to implement solution to a problem, so you can say "I'm on your side see..." yet halt any actual progress on the issue.

It's flawed because i won't have you pointing any gun at me, it's true. regardless of the effort it would cost me. As well as i won't whine about a cloaker in my system - I'd deal with him in any of the 4-5 ways i know. Whining for mechanics to be changed cause i am too lazy/greedy - is not one of them.

So i don't get your analogy. A cloaker is not something you (well, I) can't deal with - unlike a gun properly pointed at me. If you can't then perhaps you don't belong in null? Andm yea, please either stop with the analogies, or make'em accurate.

Horseradishes.

The use of local chat as intel was never intended, and the only place it will have significant impact with my change is in null itself.
Local remains present, and any uncloaked pilot in open space is listed.

The only change being created is the need for effort, where intel is deemed necessary in a complete form.

If you are implying I wanted to remove local entirely, that's a straw man, as I never endorsed that solution.


Remove the AFK player?

And you are actually missing how this is a nerf? Seriously?

Ok, here is the change you seem to not recognize:
With a so-called AFK cloaker removed automatically, this eliminates the uncertainty factor.
Players will now know that any player listed must have been active within a certain time frame, and thus represent a genuine threat.
The cloaked player will be logged out, and removed from local, after a period of inactivity.
Knowing the player will vanish, and that they are listed due to activity, means that taking a risk and undocking with a hostile listed is always a bad idea.
1 They are known to be active, so the chance they went AFK is reduced to levels not practical to gamble on.
2 They go away now very predictably. Waiting now has a definite and assured payoff. Unless your cloaked pal wants to blow their entire play period on frustrating you, and logs in and out covering your play session, they don't bother any more.

The cloaked player will quickly become aware of how noone is willing to risk activity, when the alternative of waiting has been so greatly enhanced. Cloaked players stop coming due to diminished returns.

Secondary effect: Since the threat from cloaked players is now eliminated, effectively, the risk to null PvE is diminished by a significant amount.
Either NPC threat is jacked up to compensate, (a joke considering those results elsewhere), or the rewards are dropped to compensate. (Like the ice belts now being limited first come only served)

Being a miner with that auto logoff feature sounds awfully boring, especially with rewards dropping.

You need to do more research on ideas before criticising them.

Presented hand in hand with the solution I did endorse, is the means to detect and hunt cloaked vessels.
Effort opposes effort, noone gets a free ride.


How is that different... LOL. Ok, I will go along with this, and explain.

The actual cloaked pilots who ARE a threat, and not just messing with your head, fully intend to do violence with or without additional support.
But, they know that they need the target ships to undock.

Probably like you, they are not willing to commit to a fight they feel they will lose. They want the intended targets, not the substituted PvP ships hoping to kill or drive them away. If they wanted to target consensual opponents, they would have joined one of the marching bands that roams are.
Easily spotted, and just as easily avoided or confronted. (Like a marching band on parade)

But, with local advertising their presence, the target ships stay tucked away safely.
Time passes.
The pilots wanting to rat or mine start to consider, how that cloaked pilot has only certain time zones on his kill board profile.
He is active only in that time frame.... this means he is very likely asleep or at work right now, and it must be safe to operate.
After all, he has no kills listed anywhere near this period in time!

So, they risk it. They rat, they mine, they go nuts. NOTHING happens. Success, the theory seems proven, and they make plans to do it the next night, but full force.
Meanwhile, the cloaked pilot, having left his system online the night before his weekend, is planning also a special party late night on his day off.
He knows a system where he has been passive for a day and a half, ripe for the ambush he has planned....