Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You know Azrael tha tis a load of bunk. You know that most of us favor changing local and cloaks. What we don't favor is simply changing cloaks.

You seriously think I am on some high horse over this issue? I think you might have misread my statements. I dont have any issues with local, however if it was reworked, i wouldn't care either, HOWEVER i do feel that removing it all together is a bad idea.

Pretty simple statement there and I haven't advocated for any specific change, so I would say youre barking up the wrong tree to try an prove a point.

As for the links. I will read thru them. Nothing wrong with being more educated on the topic.

What the Hell...? Nobody is saying remove local alone...well okay sometimes Nikk argues it wont be as bad as everyone thinks, but he is also flexible on that point.

The points being made are:

1. Using local for intel is a bad mechanic.
2. It leads to AFK cloaking.
3. It should be replaced.

The replacement should be balanced and one that players have to work for, at least in sov null. Also, once intel/local is changed change cloaks so that they can be hunted down. At least that is what many people suggest.

Holy crap. This argument again. Can you fight me while I am docked in station. Really? Youre going to pull that card? Why? Seriously why in the world is that even a thought that would cross your mind? That's like standing in front of someones house with a tank and yelling for them to come out with a pistol.

In my opinion and only my opinion, AFK cloaky camping for a prolonged period of time pushes past the idea of intel gathering or anything else and borders on harassment. People play this game for far more than just the PVP and some people don't want to risk billions in ISK assest against your covert ops cyno bomber, when they know its very likely they will get dropped on.

Even your own articles you sited in just the last few posts INCLUDE ways of decloaking cloaky campers, and you sited them. So you shouldnt be shocked that people think this is an issue.

Also, I am not insistent on the fact that local isnt used for intel. My point, as you seem to have ignored, is that local alone is not enough intel to keep you alive. Local, plus an active intel channel is what keeps you alive. And just to clarify for you, I mean local as in local to the exact system you are in, not the "global" local channel. If you close all your intel channels and just use local to keep yourself safe, you are at a much much higher risk of losing a ship.

I do like that you decided to quote me without including the second line. Youre quote should be...

"I have never found local to be an issue at all. From either a PVE or PVP point of view. I have always accepted it for what it was."

As for bots. They have the advantage of reacting at the speed of a computer and don't have to manage what's going immediately in front of them AND watch local. They can do both effortlessly.

Yes, really. Seriously even.

You want to engage a cloaked ship. Presumably you want to warp in de-cloak it and start shooting it. You'll presumably have your tank mods running and maybe even have your guns pre-heated. You'll likely come in with a ship that has way more fire power and tank.

And you think this is reasonable...that you can easily penetrate the main defense of a ship with a paper thin tank and so-so DPS?

So yeah, I want to eject you from a POS or station with a given mod and burn your ship and pod while you are AFK, just as you want to do to all AFK cloaked pilots.

Seems balanced to me.



By the way, sarcasm isn't just a word in the dictionary between the words sack and ****.



WTF?

Yes. I know. But there is a condition there. You have to change local and how intel gathering works. FFS.

Stop being so damn obtuse. Especially if you want to be taken seriously.

Teckos you assume for too much.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3248306#post3248306

This was my idea. Over the entire thread I attempted to modify it to include reductions in local and other things. Again you are barking hard at a tree that isn't going to reward you.

As for being taken seriously. I am not the one reacting in anger in my responses.

Not even going to read it, are ya?

Sorry I am done responding to you. I prefer Nikk anyway. I feel he is actually working to better the game.

You are claiming to be Behr Oroo?

I posted quite a bit in that thread, and quite constructively.
Posts, for reference, and not all of them.

post 31
49
68
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90
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And so on, and I actually had the last post as well.

You must understand this, to understand me:
I am an engineer, I hold one ideal above all others: It must work.

I take inspiration from many sources, especially direct experience, and I do not reject ideas without cause.

But, our current system is both broken AND balanced. It needs to be fixed on two fronts to remain balanced.

An easy game has easy rewards, and meaningless risk has meaningless rewards.
It is the challenge that gives the reward it's value.

Yes I am Behr. Virgo has become my main and I use Behr less and less. I am trying to do t2 production and virgo is my science toon. They are on separate accounts but I can provide API's for both characters if needed. They are also in the same corp, etc etc etc etc.

Anyway. Yes you made several great posts about things. I learned a lot about local in that thread. Like I said, I do actually feel that you are trying to better the game. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with you.

I guess my issue is that it is in no way balanced in regards to what I have already said: Removing a camper once they are in system. At least this is how I feel. I have stated several times that this is really my main issue. I don't have a solution for this. I liked my idea of a ship that could hunt covert ops ships, while removing all covert ops ships from local completely. That's pretty much where I left my thread when I posted with Behr.

I don't think anyone is advocating this game be easy. People play WoW if they want easy. Right now I simply feel that the risk vs reward is far out of balance for an AFK cloaky camper. One person can do large amounts of damage to a system by just being there and really there isnt anything anyone can do about it. You can play defensively, be prepared, etc etc etc but the truth is, if you are being camped, you are at the mercy of that player.

They decide when to engage, they decide when they leave and there is 0 you can do to counter it. Bait rarely works, waiting them out never works, and oh god if you pay off a camper, they will just stay longer.

Teck posted a few articles. I really liked the idea of a module that had a 1 hour spin up time, with a 2 hour refresh that decloaked ships in a system.

No the idea needed much work, which is why I abandoned it. I like it but I do agree that it has flaws.

I don't actually disagree with any of it. What I disagreed with was the complete removal of local, and from there have just been responding to people.

What I dislike about AFK cloaking is that once a person is in place, you can't remove them. I think people are looking through a very narrow window to suggest that simply changing how you play the game would correct the issue. It might make it safer overall for that pilot but it hasn't fixed the issue. There is still a camper in the system.

I haven't actually offered any solutions or anything, outside of my original forum post months ago. I have just said that I don't see a huge issue with local, the games had local since it started and I don't see removing it as a solution. I started the game when local and cloaking were both in place. I havent known the game any differently.