Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Except for the part where he literally claimed we had some kind of invulnerability, which is a clear misunderstanding of the current mechanics.

The attempted smears by crying that we're "cowards" (when you're the ones who run to the pos/station before I've even loaded grid...) doesn't work in an argument with intelligent adults. It also carries with it the implication that it's somehow invalid - morally, or cowardice, or whatever - to PVP against someone who doesn't consent. Again, that's a clear misunderstanding of the mechanics and goal of this game.

brushing up on the game mechanics and type of gameplay the game is centered on before saying such things might help you in these discussions

OK let's look at what you said:

"All AFK cloaking + cyno, is.... is a god mode for people who haven't learned to pvp, aiming at industrial pilots trying to support their alliance."

You claim the use of AFK cloaking plus cyno, is god mode. Anyone with common sense would scoff at such a claim, due in most part to what god mode in games actually is. You also add that this is used by people who haven't learnt to PvP, which is based on your feelings and not facts.

Then you say:

"allowing this is like saying ...."we don't care about the rest of this games mechanics, we just want cheap free kills that cant be countered!""

You again base this post on your feelings, not on facts. No one has said anything of the sort regarding the rest of this games mechanics. In fact those who support AFK cloaking, actually do care about other mechanics. This is why they support the status quo.
Your inclusion of the term "cheap free kills that cannot be countered", is also emotional and dishonest. First they are not free or cheap and secondly they can be countered. This thread has all the relevant information in that regard.

I question your knowledge of game mechanics at this point.

And finally:

"there are so many people with 10-50 accounts and all they do is put cloaked pilots in enemy systems 23-7, I can understand why CCP allows the abuse of the game, because it's money in their pockets, screw the average gamer, just pay us!"

Now you either have factual evidence to back up your claim that people with 10 to 50 accounts are doing this, or you are yet again being dishonest with this claim. May be you're simply being disingenuous and you meant there could be people doing that.

Then there is your claim regarding CCP allowing abuse of the game. Being as no abuse is taking place and CCP actually doesn't allow abuse of their game, what do you base this on? CCP ban those abusing their game and have done so many times, ending many accounts in the process. To claim their attitude is "screw the average gamer, just pay us!", is far from fact based posted.

So yes you may not have called troll yet, but most definitely have be dishonest and emotional in your posting. Also from what you have posted, we get the impression that you have little understanding of game mechanics involved.

yawn, yes i may have posted the initial post after months of frustration and emotion crept in, i submit that

on the god mode statement, yes i believe AFK cloakers do enjoy Invulnerability for the fact they cant be detected, scanned or countered, only when they choose to act can be attacked for a small window and might lose a cheap ship as the warped in fleet kills a miner or PVE ship that usually cost a lot.

From the fear of losing an expensive PVE ship or mining ship, we are forced to dock and stay docked while the Cyno/cloak sits AFK in system for weeks, months, years.

As they cant be detected, the option of getting in a PVP ship and going to defend your system is gone and since you cant do anything while the threat looms, I do think its like Invulnerability.

As the will only attack when they see fit and usually only uncloak when they have the advantage, or the win to loss ratio is to their advantage, will they attack, since cyno cloaked ships are generally cheap frigs or Cov ops frigs, the loss of the frig is very easy on the wallet.

on the players with 10-50 accounts yeas they exist, one was a massive problem in Providence for ages, with a cloaked ship in nearly every system, not sure if he is still there or moved? his main account was acetic acid, having 42 accounts.

Just attacking my emotional slip up, calling me a liar and attacking my knowledge of the game might seem like a great way to discredit my views, call me old fashioned but i wont respond in kind.

You already have far too much protection via local. Extended cloaking and cynos are the only avenue in which those 'soft targets' can be caught - otherwise you have to fully burn a system to the ground, which defeats the point. The ability to put some pressure on the residents with some small interference is an important one, removing it and requiring a fullscale invasion to have the chance of killing some of these people is bad design, and would make null a very boring, stagnant place.

I'm not saying the residents shouldn't have any protection, but the protection has to come from their own efforts. Run sites in a group, have fits that are slightly more capable of defending themselves or at least escaping, you have to work for it. Not just be handed absolute safety while in bloody nullsec space.

ok first i'll take my hat off to you sir for addressing the issue and not calling me a liar or someone who has no understanding of game mechanics.

I do disagree though, i believe that null should not just be just chaos open for PVP warfare.

I honestly think that if all you can do is PVP miners and indies, hang up the PVP hat and put on the "I cant PVP hat, but ill fight people who can fight back hat"

to say that i don't know how the game works, as i have said before, is silly.... unless u are working for CCP u cannot lay claim to knowing the game and is evolution.

last of all, you are trying to change the issue away from AFK camping, which i will not let you... please stay on topic.

Right, like you'd stay and fight.

God mode in games grants the player a very specific set of powers. It allows you the ability to kill everything and remain unscathed no matter what is thrown at you. The thing is, neither are guaranteed in regards to cloaking. AFK or not, cyno or not.

1. You cannot shoot or even activate a module whilst cloaked.
2. When you decloak, you are vulnerable.

The comparison is blatantly false, so why make it?

Why are you forced to dock? That's not something someone cloaked and/or AFK can force upon you. You can get in that PvP fit ship and continue ratting in the system.
The point is that there are other options open to you. But if you choose not to take them, then you only have yourselves to blame.

Also they obviously were detected, or else you wouldn't have all run for the station/pos/outpost.

Then we have your use of the term 'Invulnerability', you use this thinking it somehow helps your stance. You of course fail to point out that while they are supposedly invulnerable from you, then you are from them.

Welcome to Eve, where almost everyone will only attack when they believe the odds are in their favour. In fact welcome to gaming, this has little to do with cloaked ships and more about gamers in general.

But you raise a point, why do they have to wait? Which mechanic are they struggling against, in order to have to resort to going AFK for long stretches of time? We know the answer to this question, the real question is why is it you're not asking for that mechanic to be nerfed instead?

So one guy that may have had 42 accounts, turns into "so many people with 10-50 accounts" all with cloaked alts placed in systems? So not a lie, simply stretching the truth is that it?

No attack, as your own posts do you the discredit sir. Call me old fashioned, but I find factual based posts based on actual game mechanics, far more believable than emotional disingenuous ones.

Underlined for focus.

Null is specifically intended for this, by the fact that game enforced consequences are distinctly absent for any hostile actions.
ONLY player actions and reprisals exist.

If you cannot back your actions with threat or delivery of violence that overwhelms your opponent, you lose, they win, and you no longer hold space if they want it.



Absurd. Your argument is a backhanded push towards consensual PvP only, as noone deliberately enters a fight if they expect to lose. Go to high sec if you want the game to back up your expectations of protection, it is called Concord.



You are pretending ignorance of the status quo regarding force of arms granting license for any desired behavior.

You can stop me if you can beat me, but I will be doing the same to you. You can do anything the game let's you do, which does not violate the EULA.
There are no ethics in a sandbox game.

Page 4?.... noooooooooooooo

The prophecy warned of the consequences, we do not question the prophecy.