Player Features and Ideas Discussion

My contribution:

Hi,

Am going to show a solution to a question i think is a big problem in this game:

First:

I really have nothing against people using their cloak ship to sneak around and grab unaware people, have safe eyes for intel or any purpose a cloaker can accomplish.

The problem:

My concern is that cloak players can let the ship there in the system floating, unscanable; while they go sleep, work, play other games or anything else. This, for me, is anything different from booting! The presence of the enemies ship in a system prevents careful people to keep their business in the system afraid of a attack or hot drop, things that a active player can do (and for active players there is no problem if he can be there in his PC for 24/7). However a player can leave his account logged in and cloaked in the system playing a passive role as if he is there to control the ship, but he is not there. Its the same as booting for me.

A solution:

When a player cloak´, his ship starts to bleed a ion of some gas related to the ship race, (EX: Heliun for caldari, Xenon for galent, Radonium minmatar and Argoniun for ammar). If the ship remains x min time without warp to anywhere else in the system, that ion will accumulate to a threshold detectable by ions scan probes, so players can warp right on top of the cloaker if he goes afk or by mistake do not warp elsewhere in a given time. This way, afk cloakers can still doing his valid job while they are active and smart enough. And afk ones would be found with the probes.

The idea can be extended to find cloak fleets: when a lot of cloak ships are all together, the ion in space accumulates to the threshold limit faster, so cloak blobs would need to move faster or risk to be probed.

For EVE:

The solution i proposed intended to use current eve mechanics, new opportunities (hunt cloakers), news skills can be associated as well and prevent afk people to do passive **** (passive harassment of a system)

And, its really like StarTrek way to find things: : Spoke - deep field scans now

Borg Queen,

I have to disagree. I have had cloaky campers in a system and gone about my business in that system. Granted, it wasn't ratting or mining, but it was isk generating activities and technically I was in ships worth lots of isk, carrying lots of valuables (at least from my perspective). Sometimes I even use a...a cloak, which I find both ironic and amusing when there is a cloaky camper in system.

And I'd argue, and in fact I have argued this, that part of the problem is that some alliances have issues with working in groups. If you have a cloaky camper in system, but you get 4 buddies together and in ships more geared for PvP start ratting as a group you'll likely find you have little problems. Sure, the cloaky could open a cyno and 254 dreadnaughts could, theoretically, come through, but I doubt it. For one thing, after awhile such people would attract the wrong type of attention, and for another, it isn't something 256 people are going to get excited about. Yes, a more modest fleet of 50 could cyno in, but even if you all die, they are PvP ships and maybe you could take at least the cyno ship with you and the losses are not that big (relative to a pimped out faction BS or a carrier or something). And if that does happen you know that ratting isn't likely to be something you can do while they are parked in that system...so move systems. Or go find out where they live and start camping them. After all turn about is fair play. If they are 50 ships parked on a titan, find that, maybe you can drop on them if you can get 50+ from your alliance to form a fleet (isn't ther some Ferengi Rules of Acquistion about a set back being a opportunity...sorry been watching some DS9 while working from home ).

Plus, the real issue in this and every cloaking thread is actually local. Local is the mechanic that the ratter uses to try and stay safe. Local is the mechanic the cloaker uses to influence the ratter. Mag's has been trying to get this point across for gods knows how long. Local as an intel tool is too good. It is what needs fixing....and then when you fix that looking again at cloaks would be reasonable. Until then, nerfing cloaks would be unbalancing as it basically hands free intel to the PVE player on a silver platter and helps them even further reduce risk without taking any actions at all.

Additionally, regarding this,



Why shoudl PVE players get great intel passively? If everything is to be earned/worked for, then this means we should very much nerf local.

You completely miss my point. I'm against the AFK people, not the cloack...

"There was once an 'afk' cloaker sleepin' in my system... it really scart me."

Please make this thread a sticky so we can direct the new cloak nerf herders here.. Thanks.

Two things:
1) Why shouldn't we be able to catch and kill PVE assets? They're valid targets just like anything else. Your attempts to try and paint anyone who uses these mechanics as cowardly or not demonstrating enough ~e-honour~ is stupid. PVE assets shouldn't be immune from exploding simply because they're PVE assets. That's dumb.

2) It's not a problem just for catching PVE assets, it's a problem for catching anything that doesn't want to fight - including PVP gangs that consider the risk (due to who the enemy is, what type of ships they're flying, or how many of them there are) too much to face.

You seem to have this horrible, damaging idea that PVP is consensual, that you should only be subject to it when you're in the right type of ship, or when you are ready. That's not how it works, bro.

Borg Queen,

That you think AFK cloaking is like botting is just patently ridiculous. What you "think' is totally irrelevant since what counts is what CCP thinks regarding botting and since AFK cloaking is as old as cloaks and CCP has never considered AFK cloaking botting since it is no different than going AFK in a station or even in space cloak or no cloak (even in null, it might be dumb to do it in null without a cloak, but nothing in the rules prevents it).

And this is a game where non-consensual PVP is one of its defining elements. And being caught in the wrong ship at the wrong time is part and parcel of this. Sometimes it really hurts...but you accept it and try to learn from those experiences. Part of this is AFK cloaking. Psy-warfare is totally acceptable aspect of the game.

If you cannot adapt to this, that is not a justifiable reason to change the game mechanics and in a way that is unbalancing. Ways to adapt to this have been discussed in this thread. Are these methods as efficient at farming isk/resources as when there is no AFK camper? Probably not, but nowhere in the EULA or TOS are you assured of being able to farm in the most efficient manner.

So Borg Queen, I got your point. Your point is you are unhappy with another players style of play because it is impacting your style of play. Too bad, this is precisely how the game works and either you adapt or you stop playing.

Ultimately, you failed at understanding this game.

Instantly lock a venture.

Ok, three flaws:

1- Fit one stab, and it is bubble or GTFO on a venture.
2- Instantly lock a frigate? One that can go 918 with an AB2 or simply activate it's own cloak? (Utility slot with a prototype cloaking device FTW!)
3- Who in their right mind Hot Drops a frigate worth 328k ?

The Venture's very design is a deterrent, since it is neither cost effective or an easy target.
That is a significant advantage, and a solid reason to use this ship under these conditions.

The problem with this, is that it disregards the reason why hot dropping occurs in the first place.

Hot dropping is an awful tactic, but in cases where a single cloaked ship is not capable of threatening certain targets, all other options have been eliminated.
Despite being an improvised and desperate solution, it is simply the only one available.

Specifically:
Hot Dropping: Bridging is intended to bypass reinforced blockades and travel time. Here, it has been fine tuned to avoid advertising the presence of a fleet to the free intel tool as well by delaying the easily recognizable population spike till the last possible moment. The intention is to deny the warning local provides, although it still reports the presence of the cyno boat enough to be associated with AFK Cloaking instead.
Quite simply, while PvE pilots would never resume regular activities with a hostile fleet present, they are sometimes willing to gamble over whether a cloaked vessel represents that level of threat at a given time.

If you remove this as an option, effectively as your suggestion would, than any ship large enough to tank a cloaked vessel would have ample time to request aid, assuming it could not already leave under it's own power anyways.

This, in turn, would reduce the effective risk present in an already risk anemic environment.
Outside of a fleet or roam coming through, many PvE ships would be immune if not oblivious to risk.
And what intel channel is so awful that a fleet or roam is not reported, at least by the time it hits the second system in a region?

Wonderful observation.

Here is your solution, and I think you will find it quite enjoyable.

Treat each and every potential hostile, as if they are cloaked, and on grid with you.
They are watching every single thing you do, waiting breathlessly on a coms mic to alert 50 ships next to a titan that the moment has arrived to bridge over, a cyno has been lit.

It is a delicious rush, thrilling to think how they might watch your little ship spin and zip around, hungrily dreaming of you in a killmail to show all of their friends.

But be careful, make it so they never feel quite right to pounce.

Stay aligned and at speed to warp. Tease them mercilessly if you like, they may even leave in frustration.

Use a ship with stabs, something fast, so they can't stop you.

PvE as if you are on stage, performing... you are the star of the show, with the ISK to prove it.

Go and have fun.

bump