Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You did not see the public statement by CCP Fozzie I linked above?

Local: to powerful and intel tool.
Local: CCP doesn't like it being used for intel
Local: If they can find a suitable replacement mechanic for intel, local is gone.

What year was the cyno introduced? Surely it was before 2005.

If there were friends nearby, their gate scouts would surely see them early. Fear of a lone Buzzard or SB is irrational, even for a solo PVE ship fit and flown correctly.

Concerning the fear of the cyno, A) Without it, there is nothing to discuss in this AFK cloaky thread, and B) What makes you think that a quality FC with alliances of alliances cannot pull together more than 10 ships to hotdrop a group of 4 BS, if he wanted to? If 4 BS can be dropped by 16 well-fit pvp ships, what makes you think that fear of the cyno can be "overblown"? What does "overblown" mean in that context anyway? How long do you think that a solo BS ratter can last under the firepower of 8 pvp ships? Without the cyno, all he has to worry about is 1 pvp ship and watching the gates. With the cyno, a blob of 8 on 1 is common. Without the cyno, who cares? With the cyno, overwhelming force is most assuredly expected.

How do you not see substantial reason to fear the AFK cyno? Can you not see that the cyno is the only thing that makes AFK cloaking an issue at all?

Added:

The second phase was about how long it took to get to my safespots in comparison to the time for the threats to get to my anomaly, and how well I could evade any probes after that before I had secured my ship completely. It all counted on NOT allowing the frigate to get close in the first place, and it would have worked if the frigate did not have a warp in right on top of my 100 km perch off the anomaly. Even then, I was about 1-2 seconds away from entering warp when I was locked and pointed. I knew that if a blue insider AWOX'ed me, there was nothing I could hope to do after getting pointed, so I gave little consideration to situations involving an AWOX'er.

Taking the last part first:

1. I did not say ships with a cyno do not represent an enhanced threat.
2. My point is sometimes the BLOPs guys are in enemy territory and not neary their home space. As such a simple ping might not work. And if it is off normal alliance/corp TZ hours even still it might not work.
3. You ALWAYS assume there are sufficient pilots to kill the PvE pilot(s) in any and all circumstances. You are risk averse in the extreme.

As for when cynos were introduced they probably came in with capitals in, IIRC, Castor. Unless capitals could use gates back then, but you'd have to ask somebody who played in 2004/2005...like the person who commented.

Edit: And not everyone doing PvE in null is in a BS or larger hull. You can even find people in industrial ships zipping around. And even a lone BS can be vulnerable to a stealth bomber in the right circumstances...I've already proven that.

So yeah, people likely wont stop complaining about cloaks if you nerf cynos into uselessness...especially for things like fleet combat. Could happen, but I doubt it.

Edit: The expansion with capitals (dreadnaughts) was Cold War, July 2005.

My carrier was 100 km away from the warp-in from a safe spot not aligned with any celestial, much less with the gate from which the hostile came in. He came in a minute after the only other blue in system left through the same gate. The only way he could have landed on my position is if he had the bookmark and warped directly there. The only way to have gotten that bookmark was to have a blue scout my position while cloaked and bookmark it after he was at the desired location but still greater than 2500 m from me so he could stay cloaked.

Heh don't ever go to Fountain then, cyno drops on people PvEing is about an hourly event. People actually suggested an in alliance ALOD thread.

We have a LOT of really......erm cute.......losses for the most part, myself included.

Umm ok... you speak for CCP now... that's not a wise stance... you have been torn a new one before for presuming to speak for CCP

The proof I have of it is that people did it before cynos were a thing. Nullbears are even more risk averse than people in highsec, and cloaked ships are the only thing that present anything remotely close to a credible threat to 90% of them.

This whole thing just screams of you being upset over losing (what are we up to like..... 3 of them by now?) carriers to hotdrops.

Yes, sounds like the AWOXer had a bit of good dumb luck, landing so close to you.

Still, if you were doing that testing at that time on the test server you'd have not been ganked. For any and all testing use the test server as much as possible, IMO. It reduces your exposure to hostile action...which reduces your chances of loss. That is about the only thing that could have been done, "better".

You are wrong on this one.

Here is the interview.

Here is a direct quote, again since you apparently didn't read the first one.



You might want to read the highlighted statement a few times. And when you are done crying in your cheerios consider replying then.

What CCP Fozzie said in that interview is not all that different that what I have been saying. Local, as an intel tool, is powerful...too powerful. Ideally replacing it with something else would be good, but it will be hard, and simply removing it is not a viable strategy.

Maybe there will never be an alternate to local (as an intel tool), and it will remain the way it is now till the servers go cold, but that is only a possibility now, not a certainty (as has been claimed, I'd be willing to bet that CCP has this as a project somewhere even).

Vas, you are quite simply wrong.

Just to interject on this back-and-forth....this could be tested on the test server.....

Carry on...

Note: I think I got the quote attribution correct, but if I didn't let me know and I'll correct. Don't want to "get ripped a new one."

Edit I:
Also, there appears to be some disconnect in the back-and-forth.

Lucas appears to be saying, "If you get a good bump in a T3, it will easily knock a mining ship out of alignment."

That is probably true, but assumes the good bump.

Astronomix and Nikk are noting that getting the good bump is not that easy and as such, bumping, while effective, is not a sure thing.

Edit 2:
This kind of disconnect happens frequently in this thread.

Andy assumes the cyno hot droppers ALWAYS have enough ships.

I don't.

As such the discussion often goes off the rails. I contend you have to consider all aspects of hot dropping--i.e. the availability of people to get on the BLOPs is part of the equation. Andy prefers not to consider this part of it.

My guess is if CCP were to look at this issue, they'd go with the "bigger picture" as well. They'd also likely look at other uses of cynos than for hot drops on PvE assets as well.