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AFK Cloaking Collection Thread

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NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#3561 - 2013-12-03 00:15:18 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Considering I quoted it, yes I read it.

Your system wont work in World of Tanks. It will do nothing to help that game be "better".

An afk timer will work in every types of MMO games without affecting the active players. Just saying.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3562 - 2013-12-03 00:17:48 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Considering I quoted it, yes I read it.

Your system wont work in World of Tanks. It will do nothing to help that game be "better".

An afk timer will work in every types of MMO games without affecting the active players. Just saying.


And I'm saying it wont make the game better. Hence such a comparison is just dumb. It is like putting lipstick on a pig...it accomplishes nothing. So why waste Dev time doing it.

See...like I said, you can compare them, but sometimes such comparisons are dumb.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3563 - 2013-12-03 00:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Astroniomix
NightmareX wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I'll say it. You can't compare two completely dissimilar games and expect anyone to take you seriously.

There. Now you can have your indignation and your defiant "you can't tell me what to do" rage-party.

Yes you can compare 2 different games that use a system that is independent of what kind of game that is player. An afk timer is just not just limited to one type of game. It's meant for every games that want to take care of the afk'ers.

So yes, we can compare the afk system independent on what game that is taken into the consideration.

Except that because of how local is used in comparison to other games an "afk" flag has a much different effect. So no, saying that it works in another game so it will work in EVE is not a valid statement. In "other games" the people in your chat channels aren't looking to kill you.

EDIT: upon further thought and introducing far too much alcohol into my system, I'm going to vote to support the implementation of an "AFK" flag.

You think it's bad now? Just wait for the tears of impotent rage when the cloaker's "afk" flags keep going up and down at random intervals.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#3564 - 2013-12-03 00:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Considering I quoted it, yes I read it.

Your system wont work in World of Tanks. It will do nothing to help that game be "better".

An afk timer will work in every types of MMO games without affecting the active players. Just saying.


And I'm saying it wont make the game better. Hence such a comparison is just dumb. It is like putting lipstick on a pig...it accomplishes nothing. So why waste Dev time doing it.

See...like I said, you can compare them, but sometimes such comparisons are dumb.

Well, it will balance the game out better and favour the active players over the afk players.

And that will in the end make the game better.

I can't see why it wouldn't be better after that.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3565 - 2013-12-03 00:26:19 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Considering I quoted it, yes I read it.

Your system wont work in World of Tanks. It will do nothing to help that game be "better".

An afk timer will work in every types of MMO games without affecting the active players. Just saying.


And I'm saying it wont make the game better. Hence such a comparison is just dumb. It is like putting lipstick on a pig...it accomplishes nothing. So why waste Dev time doing it.

See...like I said, you can compare them, but sometimes such comparisons are dumb.

Well, it will balance the game out better and favour the active players over the afk players.

And that will in the end make the game better.

I can't see why it wouldn't be better after that.


So your answer to Nikk was A.

Quote:
Your [NightmareX] claim that it doesn't hurt those who actually play the game, is in direct conflict with evidence to the contrary.

Now, you can of course claim anything you like, as claims carry no weight of proof.

As well, you would pretend that an AFK timer would not change the balance of the game.

So, which is true, out of the following two options possible?

A: The game is not balanced, the devs have known of this issue for years and left it like this. The AFK timer will fix this problem.

B: The game is balanced, but the devs will introduce this AFK timer because they will decide to shift the balance point in favor of those negatively affected by AFK behavior.


You think the current game is not balanced and it is currently unfair for null sec PvE pilots and has been so for years and CCP and the Devs have done nothing about it.

The solution is an AFK timer.

In short, PvE in null needs a buff.

Damn it was hard getting an answer out of you. Shocked

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#3566 - 2013-12-03 00:30:09 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Damn it was hard getting an answer out of you. Shocked

I answered him with a more reasonable answer to that earlier.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3567 - 2013-12-03 00:32:44 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Damn it was hard getting an answer out of you. Shocked

I answered him with a more reasonable answer to that earlier.


No, actually you didn't. You went on to repeat yet again why you think an AFK timer would be awesome, but didn't answer Nikk's question.

But whatever, clearly you think the situation is A.

Further question: Why do you play a game where the Dev's leave things unbalanced for so long and with no sign they'll ever fix it in your favor?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#3568 - 2013-12-03 00:36:01 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Damn it was hard getting an answer out of you. Shocked

I answered him with a more reasonable answer to that earlier.


No, actually you didn't. You went on to repeat yet again why you think an AFK timer would be awesome, but didn't answer Nikk's question.

But whatever, clearly you think the situation is A.

Further question: Why do you play a game where the Dev's leave things unbalanced for so long and with no sign they'll ever fix it in your favor?

I think the situation is that when something is unbalanced in EVE, we should get CCP to balance those things out to make EVE better without affecting the active players.

There are many things with EVE that is not balanced today. But we have to take one thing at a time.

And let me ask you this. WHY would an afk timer be bad when it doesn't affect those who are playing the game?

Pressing a button 1 time every 5 hours is not playing the game.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3569 - 2013-12-03 00:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
In that case, very few not-AFK miners are actually playing the game.

This thread reads like a textbook in how to identify logical fallacies.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3570 - 2013-12-03 05:47:56 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
In that case, very few not-AFK miners are actually playing the game.

This thread reads like a textbook in how to identify logical fallacies.


What he said, every ice miner is now AFK.

Pretty much the stupidest requirement: pressing a button every 5 minutes to simply satisfy some random guy on the forums definition of what it means to be AFK.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3571 - 2013-12-03 05:49:42 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I'll say it. You can't compare two completely dissimilar games and expect anyone to take you seriously.

There. Now you can have your indignation and your defiant "you can't tell me what to do" rage-party.

Yes you can compare 2 different games that use a system that is independent of what kind of game that is player. An afk timer is just not just limited to one type of game. It's meant for every games that want to take care of the afk'ers.

So yes, we can compare the afk system independent on what game that is taken into the consideration.

Except that because of how local is used in comparison to other games an "afk" flag has a much different effect. So no, saying that it works in another game so it will work in EVE is not a valid statement. In "other games" the people in your chat channels aren't looking to kill you.

EDIT: upon further thought and introducing far too much alcohol into my system, I'm going to vote to support the implementation of an "AFK" flag.

You think it's bad now? Just wait for the tears of impotent rage when the cloaker's "afk" flags keep going up and down at random intervals.


I thought about this too.

Just going in and out of AFK status just to watch the rage in local and forums.

"This douche bag keeps going AFK and then not-AFK and I can't rat!!!!!"

Next, going AFK and not-AFK will be considered and exploit by these people.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#3572 - 2013-12-03 06:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
In that case, very few not-AFK miners are actually playing the game.

This thread reads like a textbook in how to identify logical fallacies.


What he said, every ice miner is now AFK.

Pretty much the stupidest requirement: pressing a button every 5 minutes to simply satisfy some random guy on the forums definition of what it means to be AFK.

Now, you are going to far. We are not talking about pressing a button every 5 minutes. Rather get real with your rant. We are rather talking about pressing something within 30 minutes witch most of us takes as not playing pretty much as that mean you are barely playing the game.

An afk timer also means that every miner actually have to play the game rather than not playing the game and gains benefits for it.

Basicly, an afk timer fixes everything about the case of gaining benefits for not playing the game.

And it's simple. If you don't play the game, you gains nothing. Isn't that a good idea when it comes to playing MMO's where you play with other humans?

Teckos Pech wrote:
Just going in and out of AFK status just to watch the rage in local and forums.

"This douche bag keeps going AFK and then not-AFK and I can't rat!!!!!"

At least they have to be near their computers and be somewhat active in EVE to be able to do that.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3573 - 2013-12-03 06:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
In that case, very few not-AFK miners are actually playing the game.

This thread reads like a textbook in how to identify logical fallacies.


What he said, every ice miner is now AFK.

Pretty much the stupidest requirement: pressing a button every 5 minutes to simply satisfy some random guy on the forums definition of what it means to be AFK.

Now, you are going to far. We are not talking about pressing a button every 5 minutes. Rather get real with your rant. We are rather talking about pressing something within 30 minutes witch most of us takes as not playing pretty much as that mean you are barely playing the game.

An afk timer also means that every miner actually have to play the game rather than not playing the game and gains benefits for it.

Basicly, an afk timer fixes everything about the case of gaining benefits for not playing the game.

And it's simple. If you don't play the game, you gains nothing. Isn't that a good idea when it comes to playing MMO's where you play with other humans?

Teckos Pech wrote:
Just going in and out of AFK status just to watch the rage in local and forums.

"This douche bag keeps going AFK and then not-AFK and I can't rat!!!!!"

At least they have to be near their computers and be somewhat active in EVE to be able to do that.


Well, I'm updataing the client ATM, but last I checked it took just over 34 minutes for my Mackinaw's ore hold to fill up with ice. Given I could fill it off of one ice asteroid, that means I'd be "AFK" by most people's definition in this thread.

Do you even play the game?

Or maybe I should take a page out of yours and Lucas' book and ask if you are on drugs, an idiot, or stupid or a moron.

Why should you be the one to decide I'm AFK if I don't click around in my client in that 34 minutes? Why should I have to stare at my screen the entire time? If I'm in high sec, why can't I wander off to the kitchen to grab a drink without being penalized so you can get a benefit.

Really...when was the last time you logged in?

Tell me again how brilliant you are at this game.

Edit: 36 minutes to get the ore bay filled fully.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3574 - 2013-12-03 07:55:28 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:


4> Nope, you're AFK. Log into a FPS....


Eve is not an FPS...comparison's are rather dubious as a result.
When you're someone important, you can tell me what I can and can't compare. Until then, I'll happily compare an online game to another online game.
Or better still, I'll simply state that if you don;t touch the client for 30 minutes, you are AFK. The end.


I didn't say you couldn't compare, but that such comparisons are dubious...i.e. what works in one style of game may not work in another.
Well it would work in this one. Get over it.

Seriously though, what should we expect. You will deny anything and everything we say regardless, since that's all you've ever done. When someone tells you an answer you either deny it or ignore it. You are utterly incapable of listening to anything beyond what you say. It's like trying to reason with a 6 year old, it's a pointless endeavour.

I've explained it simply enough though. If you aren't even looking at the client for 30 mins, you are AFK. I really don't give a **** if you care to label yourself that way or not, but you are.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#3575 - 2013-12-03 08:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
Well, I'm updataing the client ATM, but last I checked it took just over 34 minutes for my Mackinaw's ore hold to fill up with ice. Given I could fill it off of one ice asteroid, that means I'd be "AFK" by most people's definition in this thread.

Do you even play the game?

Or maybe I should take a page out of yours and Lucas' book and ask if you are on drugs, an idiot, or stupid or a moron.

Why should you be the one to decide I'm AFK if I don't click around in my client in that 34 minutes? Why should I have to stare at my screen the entire time? If I'm in high sec, why can't I wander off to the kitchen to grab a drink without being penalized so you can get a benefit.

Really...when was the last time you logged in?

Tell me again how brilliant you are at this game.

Edit: 36 minutes to get the ore bay filled fully.

So just because it takes you 36 minutes to fill up your Mackinaw's ore bay, it does mean you can't do anything else within those 36 minutes?

Just a simple deactivate and activate on some of your modules will reset that timer.

Again, the more the game encourage you to be in front of your computer and do things while you are playing EVE, the better it is. Don't tell me that you are that lazy that you can't click on something every 29 minutes or so just to reset the timer?

Or would that be to much work for you?

Again, efforts, have you ever heard about that?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3576 - 2013-12-03 08:06:03 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:


4> Nope, you're AFK. Log into a FPS....


Eve is not an FPS...comparison's are rather dubious as a result.
When you're someone important, you can tell me what I can and can't compare. Until then, I'll happily compare an online game to another online game.
Or better still, I'll simply state that if you don;t touch the client for 30 minutes, you are AFK. The end.


I didn't say you couldn't compare, but that such comparisons are dubious...i.e. what works in one style of game may not work in another.
Well it would work in this one. Get over it.

Seriously though, what should we expect. You will deny anything and everything we say regardless, since that's all you've ever done. When someone tells you an answer you either deny it or ignore it. You are utterly incapable of listening to anything beyond what you say. It's like trying to reason with a 6 year old, it's a pointless endeavour.

I've explained it simply enough though. If you aren't even looking at the client for 30 mins, you are AFK. I really don't give a **** if you care to label yourself that way or not, but you are.


Yes, but it is a bad mechanic.

Why should all Ice miners be considered AFK if they don't sit and doodle around in their clients ever 30 minutes. It takes 35-36 minutes (with good skills) to fill up a mackinaw. Those players should be made to conform to something you think is "good for th game" when it clearly benefits you and not them.

And what if look at the client every 15 minutes, but don't do anything? Am I AFK then?

You make up these arbitrary definitions that just underscore the nonsense in you suggestions. Heck, Andy says if you are using cap or gates then not AFK. That is at least reasonable. Especially for ice miners and freighter pilots.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3577 - 2013-12-03 08:07:38 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Well, I'm updataing the client ATM, but last I checked it took just over 34 minutes for my Mackinaw's ore hold to fill up with ice. Given I could fill it off of one ice asteroid, that means I'd be "AFK" by most people's definition in this thread.

Do you even play the game?

Or maybe I should take a page out of yours and Lucas' book and ask if you are on drugs, an idiot, or stupid or a moron.

Why should you be the one to decide I'm AFK if I don't click around in my client in that 34 minutes? Why should I have to stare at my screen the entire time? If I'm in high sec, why can't I wander off to the kitchen to grab a drink without being penalized so you can get a benefit.

Really...when was the last time you logged in?

Tell me again how brilliant you are at this game.

Edit: 36 minutes to get the ore bay filled fully.
36 minutes, how badly skilled are you? You should be filling in like 24 minutes even without orca support.
And noone is saying you can't wander off to get a drink, but IMHO, if you "wander off" for 30 minutes, you are AFK and should be dropped. If your risk free 8m/load is affected by that, I'm OK with it.
What's really funny though is this would in fact be a benefit. If you could get you time/load down to 30m (should not be much of a task) then you could happily AFK for your 30 minutes, get a full load then be safely whisked off to a deadspace location until you are ready to go offload and run another cycle.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#3578 - 2013-12-03 08:08:01 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Why should all Ice miners be considered AFK if they don't sit and doodle around in their clients ever 30 minutes.

Are you gonna play the game or afk play?

But i'll guess pressing a single button every 30 minute is to much effort for you.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3579 - 2013-12-03 08:10:06 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Well, I'm updataing the client ATM, but last I checked it took just over 34 minutes for my Mackinaw's ore hold to fill up with ice. Given I could fill it off of one ice asteroid, that means I'd be "AFK" by most people's definition in this thread.

Do you even play the game?

Or maybe I should take a page out of yours and Lucas' book and ask if you are on drugs, an idiot, or stupid or a moron.

Why should you be the one to decide I'm AFK if I don't click around in my client in that 34 minutes? Why should I have to stare at my screen the entire time? If I'm in high sec, why can't I wander off to the kitchen to grab a drink without being penalized so you can get a benefit.

Really...when was the last time you logged in?

Tell me again how brilliant you are at this game.

Edit: 36 minutes to get the ore bay filled fully.

So just because it takes you 36 minutes to fill up your Mackinaw's ore bay, it does mean you can't do anything else within those 36 minutes?

Just a simple deactivate and activate on some of your modules will reset that timer.

Again, the more the game encourage you to be in front of your computer and do things while you are playing EVE, the better it is. Don't tell me that you are that lazy that you can't click on something every 29 minutes or so just to reset the timer?

Or would that be to much work for you?

Again, efforts, have you ever heard about that?


You really don't play do you.

Look I have 2 types of modules on my Mack you boob. Tank and harvesters. I deactivate my harvesters then it will take even longer to fill the cargo.

I deactivate my tank modules I gimp my tank...why should I have to do that to satisfy your idiotic arbitrary definition.

Why not an hour? Or 57 minutes.

What if I'm using cap or crossing gates. Every autopiloting freigher is now AFK and should be marked as such to make it even easier for suicide gankers?

That will make the game better? Why does suicide ganking of freighters need a buff?

Please, share more of your unbelievable genius with rest of us.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3580 - 2013-12-03 08:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Why should all Ice miners be considered AFK if they don't sit and doodle around in their clients ever 30 minutes.

Are you gonna play the game or afk play?

But i'll guess pressing a single button every 30 minute is to much effort for you.


I am doing something FFS. I have logged in, I'm at my desk...at my keyboard. I have pushed several buttons to start mining. It just takes 36 minutes for the ore hold to fill up. Why should I have, a paying customer, have to do something to keep playing while you get a benefit.

This is a horrible game mechanic idea.

And one totally unnecessary to deal with AFK cloakers. Andy's idea is far better than yours. You and Lucas should wise up and let him do the talking.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online