Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The reason is very clear on that, it's because there doesn't exist ANY types of risks involved by being afk cloaked in a system or it doesn't require you to do ANY efforts at all to cause fear upon others. PERIOD.

AFK cloaking would still be able to do except that you have to make some effort to stay in space. Yeah, a whole click every 30 minutes is to much effort to stay in space.

It's pretty clear that local and cloaking as it works today is working like it should. Removing local makes so much changes that PVP / PVE would be so much hassle that most peoples would simply move out of 0.0 and low sec space and into high sec as no one can suprise attack you there with a cyno hotdrop or anything like that.

The problem is 'AFK cloaking' and not local or cloaking in it self.

AFK cloaking exist because it doesn't have any risks involved and because it's a free pass to kill anyone with a suprise cyno as the others in local doesn't know if you are active or afk. It exist because it's risk free when you strike when the others in local doesn't expect it and it's extremely easy to get kills without the risk of losing anything.

You can still do the typical cyno hotdrops and keep spying on others in local with the 30 mins afk timer. The only thing you have to do is to make sure to click something inside the 30 mins with is pretty much no effort what so ever.

In short, if you want to achieve something in EVE, then play the game. If you want to be afk, then you are afk and your character should be taken as afk (after the timer have kicked in) to anyone who sees you in local.

Anyone who are afk should NOT gain any benefits what so ever in any types of forms.

At least i know they have to be somewhere near their computer to be able to stay active in game. It's simple. If you go afk and the timer kicks in, it means you are afk or doing something else and should not affect anything upon others at any points. If you can do some little efforts to not let the timer kick in, you will stay active in game and you can still keep dropping suprise cynos on whoever you want.

It doesn't change anything for those who are playing eve actively, it only make some small changes for those who are afk. And as someone are afk, they simply wouldn't care if they get the afk timer kicked in on them as they aren't doing anything in EVE. Anyone who are against this simply have an intention to affect something in EVE while not playing it, witch is just plain stupid in an MMO game.

This will sovle all of the problems here pretty much as others in local can see if someone are afk or not. Witch is the whole problem with AFK cloaking as no one knows if you are AFK or not and therefor takes you as active all the time and have to work their asses off to defend themself while you who are AFK can cause fear upon others and make them to do things while you are not playing the game.

Anyone who doesn't see this, is pretty much here to destroy the game for others who are active and not here to destroy others day by making efforts to do that.

Now i'm just waiting for Teckos and Nikk to come back with a hurrdurr reply to me with walls of text with excuses that takes the focus away from what i'm saying back to the drivel they are talking about. Just wait for it.

Pointing out a Bad Idea™ is indeed a Bad Idea™ is not trolling.

I keep pointing out that if you are going to nerf something a good rule of thumb is you don't end up nerfing other types of valid game play as well. When they nerfed tracking titans, did it impact anyone not in a titan? And by impact I mean directly (not indirectly like your inty is no longer going to get blapped by a titan). I can't think of anyone else that would have been impacted. I know I wasn't....oh and hey, I don't have a titan. Go figure.

The only way to successful AFK cloak and have an impact on other players game (i.e. this lets out WH space) is for there to be local. If you go into some WH and then AFK cloak in there...nobody cares. They don't care because you might as well not be there from the perspective of the WH guys who are there doing stuff. Why is this the case? No local to let them know that there is a hostile present.

That is why local is am important issue in this discussion. And the reason why so many dread a change to local and intel is that it means they might not have AFK cloakers, but more active pilots now. Which is actually worse, in that these guys, if given the chance, will kill your ship. The AFK guy, not so much...because he is AFK.

My preferences are to A) decouple intel and local or B) status quo.

Last thing I think we should do is nerf cloaks in general or other types of game play simply to give a benefit to null sec PvE pilots that they absolutely do not deserve and did nothing to earn.

Oh but I am doing something in Eve. My PI planets are humming along, I'm not logged in, and if you had facilities on the same planet I'd be adversely impacting you too.

How about people with sales orders, definitely having an impact as well...and often not logged in. And if they were and AFK it wouldn't change a damn thing either.

Seems to me if players can accrue benefits and not be logged in, being AFK is not such a big deal...especially when the benefits that accrue to AFK players are dubious at best.

You just activated something that makes the EVE client / system to do things for you. The PI stuffs have to be run by the EVE clients anyways. If not, the PI stuffs would go offline when you logs off lol.

Yeah, EVE does something for me to, it trains my skills, but at least i have to make the effort of paying for my account and log in and change to new skills and so on to be able to keep training my skills. It's the same for you, you have to make the effort to log in and be active to put the PI stuffs up and running.

This is actually false. While there isn't a cyno threat, people very much do care about non-friendlies cloaked in their systems.

Also Teckos is wrong, wormholes have watchlists, and while they aren't infalable like local, people will people will stay posed up if you show as online and haven't been spotted leaving. (exact reactions vary depending on the corp in question and what you were spotted entering the system in)

Same thing with AFK cloaking. I have to pay, I have to log in to set it up (well if I did it) and activate the cloak. Far more than you and skill training.

Yeah, you are correct, I forgot about the watchlist mechanic. But this actually proves my point about local...completely.

Watchlist is being used as a poor substitute for local by Worm Holers...and look, they behave exactly like null players when they know somebody is in system via the watchlist and cloaked.

But, if it is an AFK cloaker not on a watchlist what will the Worm Holers do....go on about their business just as if he weren't there.

I think we have established cause and effect here. Lucas' dubious use of the "correlation does not imply correlation" bromide can be put to rest now.

To be perfectly clear on this cause and effect thingy....

The AFK cloaker needs three things to successfully AFK cloak and disrupt a system.

1. The desire to AFK cloak.
2. A cloaking device fitted to the ship to be used.
3. Local.

Without all three of these AFK cloaking cannot happen. We can't do much about 1. Nobody who complains about AFK cloaking wants to touch 3. For those complaining about AFK cloaking and things Something Needs To Be Done™ this leaves just 2, messing with the cloaking device.

The thing is cloaking devices are used for game play other than just AFK cloaking. Anything that nerfs cloaks also, by definition, nerfs those types of game play. I don't think it is reasonable to nerf those types of game play simply to convey a benefit to those who are doing PvE. The people complaining about AFK cloaking never ever make a case as to why they should get this benefit at the expense of active cloakers.

A log off timer is like trying use a hammer when you need s tool with more subtlety. Sure it is not that big a deal for any single pilot, but I contend that pilots who pay the same subscription fee as the PvE pilots who are complaining should not have to jump through additional hoops when they are indeed not AFK. Just as it would not be a big deal for everybody in the U.S. to send me $0.01 each year. They could all afford it and the impact on their lives is minimal. But do I really deserve that income transfer of $3.25 million? Rent seeking, which is what most who are complaining about AFK cloaking are doing, is generally a bad thing.

So, why should PvE pilots get this kind of a benefit? Why should active cloakers get their game nerfed? Why should people who log in but happen to be doing something that does not require lots of input to the client get their game nerfed. Either make the case for why PvE pilots in null should get such a benefit at the expense of others or find a solution that does not impose that expense.

What a load of semantic bravo sierra. If the Eve client is going to determine if I'm AFK or not, then it is the same as having me prove it.



Because uncertainty and risk are fundamental aspects of this game. For the same reason we don't have PvP free zones.



I don't know why you think this is some sort of secret, I've been saying all along that the point of AFK cloaking is to increase uncertainty...which is what you are saying, you just use the word fear instead. But yeah, the one aspect of AFK cloaking is to cause PvE pilots to do something other than they would normally be doing.



Sure they are comparable. You said you pay for you account. So do I. Why should I have to jump through extra hoops when you don't have too? You also say you have to keep your skill queue up-to-date, so the AFK cloaker has to activate the cloaking module...about the same amount of effort really, click the mouse a few times.