Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Good thing we can close this horribly derailed rant now

Local may go, it may stay but the intel it provides could be decoupled. No one knows, including you. But no one here with any sense of balance, would advocate the complete removal of local, without it being as part of a package of changes. That package may include ways to gain the intel in a different way and the ability to find cloaked ships. It's not just about removing local. You know this of course, but that fact like others, doesn't seem all that important to you.

Oh and for the record, I like the status quo.

When did I say you didn't say that? I did in fact quote you saying the following:
"What that means is, the fact that removing local would stop the issue......."

But if your reply was actually in regards to the post after the one you quoted, then you did say local will never be removed. I simply said local may go or it's intel may be decoupled. But no one knows, including you.

It is all in the posts above, just in case you missed it.

But it is the underlining cause. The fact you don't need a cloak to gain the same effect, should speak volumes in this regard. This is why Nikk, Techos and others are against simply nerfing cloaks. It doesn't fix the cause.

Plus your insistence on being disingenuous about what Nikk and Teckos want, doesn't do you any credit. It just makes you look like you are the one trolling. Either pay them the courtesy of being truthful about their intentions, or don't mention them at all. They do not think the "only way" is to remove local. For someone that constantly looks for the grey areas, you do a poor job of seeing that in others arguments.

Talk about ad hominem. Ask any competent cyno pilot about how reliably a capital can be jumped onto station with a cyno with no risk to bounce or docking distance issues. Cynoing is one of the most common professions out there so surely you must know at least one decent cyno pilot. If not, then ask around until you find an elite capital group and ask them. The fact that you can't imagine a safe station cyno raises eyebrows regarding your ideas concerning capital ships.


The point is purely in the delusional beliefs of the afk cloakers that they are having a big impact on Eve without any effort. While they are not impacting the smart players very much as ops are moved to other systems, they are in fact removing some content from the Eve Universe by denying the use of a system for certain content. So the Eve Universe is hurt, but the smart players are relatively unaffected and those few less experienced players out there soon learn how to be unaffected by simply moving systems.

SO, Mag, what is the point of the predator hiding in the null sec bush (afk cloaking) when the ostrich is in high sec because it doesn't feel like putting his head in the ground out in null sec? What is the point? Because without the use of local channel, all the prey move to where their heads are not force-buried in the ground. The loss of local does not kill afk cloaking specifically, it kills all pve hunting because the hunting grounds will be drier than Mars.

Local does not force anyone to afk cloak. Local gives no reward to the afk cloaker, except the vain delusions of his own mind imagining ghost comfort with his presence, ghost tears and ghost rage.

So just to clarify, since you seem to go 2 ways on this depending on time of day, under your idea, would a cloaked ship be able to be detected entering a system with the "effort based intel system" in place?

I was under this impression this was a "Yes", since without that cloakers would be stupidly overpowered.

Honestly this is all still utterly moot, since CCP won't remove local.

CCP experimented with a Stealth Module and Cloak Scrambler -not the exact names, but that's what they did. The Stealth Module is in for the BS hulls to reduce signature radius. Cloak Scrambler was like a 20k radius smartbomb that did only 1 thing -decloak people within the radius at gates. Would CCP be willing to experiment with a Cloak Scrambler -even if for interdictor or heavy interdictor and with 10k radius, 30s recycle and/or perhaps a charge required for it? Yes, it means Force Recon's and Covert Ops have a nasty chance of getting decloaked and destroyed, but eve is about risk/reward.

Means nothing vs AFK cloakers; just AFK cloakers

Honestly, knowing what CCP are like, they are most likely to make cloaker hunting part of exploration by adding probes. The only time they've ever semi-officially commented on it they stated they wanted a cat-and-mouse mechanic between hunters and cloakers.

EDIT: While I can see why that would be a bad idea by the way I now officially don;t care. The only real amount of cloaking I did was to get through gatecamps and the like, but with the new interceptor mechanics. there's simply no point going covops. 11.52 au/s, 35m rad, double stabbed. Insanity.

EDIT 2: Oh and before Teckos dives in with a "See! He hates active cloakers!", that;s not to say I don;t care as in I want active cloakers nerfed, I'd much prefer a solution that has minimal affect on anyone not AFK. But with the inability to discuss such solutions, it won't be affecting me when CCP make a change that nerfs them.

So what's the point of AFK cloaking, without the use of local?

What's the point of much of anything in cyno space without local? Even though you may say that people will cease activity B (pvp/afk cloak) without thing A (local) doesn't mean that thing A causes activity B. It could be that thing A (local) enables activity C (PVE) which attracts activity B (pvp). But your assumption fails in whs, because not only do people pvp in whs without local (and without cynos), they also afk cloak and pve. Local provides no rewards; it only acts as an early warning device against pvp, most especially against cyno blobbing, which you will not find in whs.

Yes, people afk cloak in whs ALL the time, but thanks to the cyno not being an option and the whs limiting the mass, the residents can maintain a high enough level of preparedness some of the time to counter the unknown threats. Many corps fold in wh space, though, because they are not large enough to maintain high enough levels of preparedness to handle threats and therefore players sit around in space waiting for enough others to log on. In known space, it is not possible to have enough players logged on to create a strong enough defensive preparedness against current cyno mechanics, so we really on the early warning of local for the most part. This is all really very elementary and the evidence of this behavior is quite well establish.

Again, if AFK cloakers are not having any significant effect then why all the sturm and drang?

Lets just leave the current mechanic as is then.