Player Features and Ideas Discussion

No, you want it so this ship that CAN EVADE, will ALWAYS SUCCEED, ...NO MATTER WHAT, short of a blob showing up to reinforce structures. He can simply fly somewhere else then.

I am at least trying to get this player to make an opposed effort, rather than playing against a clock that warns him that he will need to make this effort.

Mandatory? Where do you get this wild idea?

I said that a player wanting to get ISK, in space by ratting mining or whatever, should need to make an opposed effort to remain safe.
If they choose to be safe with zero risk, then they should be either docked, cloaked, or behind POS shields. You can neither mine or shoot loot dropping targets under these conditions.

Smart players will learn to minimize their risk, so that only extraordinary effort can threaten them. That is a good thing.

But in ALL cases, it should be effort that makes this judgement, not a game mechanic that simply hands out free passes.

I would trade in the invulnerability possessed by cloaks in exchange for the free nature of the warnings given out.

Again, an extreme argument falls the moment it is revealed as such.

1. Of course effort can be measured. If you fit a ship able to warp in less than 4 seconds, you create a measurement against which another player must compete. If they cannot get onto grid and lock you down inside of 4 seconds, you get away.
The math is simple enough.

2. We aren't talking about pilots mutually hunting each other. The cloaked pilot only has an advantage if his quarry is using evasion as a primary tactic, as it minimizes the needed time available to them. For a tank heavy, or DPS heavy target, the cloak fails miserably, as it is less effective against these. PvE offers all of these options, to the open minded.

3. Guaranteed? You want the guarantee that a pilot can always escape, under the right circumstances.
I am asking for no guarantees, AT ALL.
None, zero, zilch, nada. I want uncertainty, which we do not have at this time.

Oh yeah, because there's a single measure of effort right? Owning and holding the sov, the choice of ship, the choice of modules, the choice of location, the choice of activity, the speed of reactions, none of these come into the count right?
Seriously guy...

Except no PVE target is going to be fit to withstand a fight, and if they are, the cloaker still wins as he gets to run away.

It's currently NOT guaranteed though, and you want it to be guaranteed, by enforcing a set of rules that make it impossible for a PVE player to win and makes it SUPER easy for a cloaked pilot to win.
And no, you want easy kills. Stop bullshitting.

You wrote you are in the CFC (which is true) and that you can rat in countless regions...which is highly dubious.

Can I rate in SMA space? Answer, no, not without starting a diplomatic incident. Can I rat in Branch? No, same thing. Deklein? No, with one exception. Can I rat in Fade? No. Can I rat in Fountain, yes. Can I rat in Tenal? No.

Basically, I can rat in Cloud Ring, Fountain, and NPC space. That is your countless regions. And anyone in any alliance anywhere in game can rat in NPC space as well...so technically they have "countless regions" too.

And you are perfectly safe too. He is not at his keyboard and he is cloaked. The latter means he can't target you, activate any modules, etc.

Now, once he decloaks then you are vulnerable...and so is he, and oh looky, he is not AFK anymore either.

Basically, you want to be safe from people who pose no harm to you. What you really want is reduced uncertainty and risk...in null. Basically lawless space except for whatever law the players in that space see fit to hand out.

Unbelievable...

Nikk: I want no guarantees at all--none for the PvE player, none for the PvP player.
Lucas: YOU LIAR!!!!!! You just want easy kills!!!! You want to ruin Eve!!!!!

Well played Lucas.

But thanks for all the bumps!

Still wearing the sheep's clothes, but we all see the talk about wanting the easy kills. Love it.

And all of the threads about improving mining must be illusions too, then?

Every time you see a thread suggesting a mini-game, or other focus-centric device intended to encourage attention, it points out that the threat from PvP is not simply manageable, it is often non-existent.

Here I am, on the other hand, pointing out how it is possible to achieve two goals with one set of changes.

Sure, mining still needs more work than this, but at least it improves the experience in null.

Well if you proposed something other than solutions based on half-baked notions from the "Real World" we might get somewhere.

For example, with the interceptor changes coming with Rubicon and if we changed the jump/local mechanic so people did not show in local until their gate cloak drops that could be sufficient to introduce some risk and then possibly consider some changes to the cloaking mechanic.

But yours and Lucas' obstinate refusal to even accept that local/jump mechanic gives the pilot already in system an advantage is going to make any discussion at this point moot.

So I'll settle for bumps...from my own posts, Nikk's, yours and Luxas'. This thread is a surefire way of getting other repetitious threads on this topic locked sooner rather than later.

Edit: Oh and regarding your hot drop/SB fears....

There is nothing preventing a PvE player in a PvP fit ship from doing DPS. A few pages back there was a KM linked where a guy in a PvE tengu killed at least 2 of the SBs attacking him. Fit it for PvP and it might have killed even more. You keep removing the point I make that the ships should be PvP. You keep changing the conditions of my response then concluding what I wrote wont work...which is rather dishonest.*

Also you are assuming facts that support your contention without even the slightest consideration that the BLOPs guys may not have 20 guys. To you there are always more numbers available for the BLOPs when reality is it may or may not be true. The point here is that the more PvP fit ships doing PvE the higher the bar is for the BLOPs gang which means such a type of hot drop becomes less and less likely. Which makes me think you really do want zero risk.**

And you don't have to get in BS. If you suspect a SB hot drop get in something that can kill SBs (i.e. where tracking wont be as much of an issue). And try drones. Warrior IIs are fast enough 25 of them are going to be a serious problem for any SB. And with an omni tank it will likely take longer to kill each BS. And why does it have to be 5 BS? Couldn't you have a different fleet composition?

And why are these 5 pilots all so close 1 SB can get 3 points?

If you are going to PvE dumb, expect to die.

*BTW this dishonest makes serious discussion with you rather difficult.

**And lets keep in mind that when there is nobody else in the system you can min-max your fit and earn considerable isk with zero threat. It is only when there is a neutral present that risk deviates from zero.

What?
I argue to keep local because without it there would be man problems, which yes, would ruin null.
How does that mean local is involved though?
I'm not arguing local because it's involved, I'm arguing about it because every time anyone mentions AFK cloakers you start ranting about local like a moron.