Player Features and Ideas Discussion

My point is made. Your trying to keep a broken mechanic because you somehow have tied it to some other broken mechanic in the game and trying to avoid making any changes because of that.

You honestly have no counter arguments against the fact that perma cloaking in this game should stick around. Instead you derail it to some other flaw that needs addressed. A flaw about local that literally is like cancer, an unintentional mechanic that have not been fixed after 10 years and probably wont be fixed for another decade.

We all know local will eventually have to be addressed but perma cloaking should and could be fixed right now as its a much simpler and easier fix. Trying to avoid fixing it because of local is just as flawed in trying to fix all the flaws and broken mechanics of eve in one single patch.

It is not an easier fix.

The details of their broken components both relate to intel about the play type central to this debate. A so-called AFK cloaked ship.
In logical terms, the fact that people are told of it's presence for no effort cannot be simply pushed aside.
It is the exact reason for it's subsequent behavior, as demonstrated.

Either use logic, or admit you are abandoning it here.

If it were accurate, yes, it would be.

Problem A: Local is broken.
This has an evolved effect now called Problem B.
Problem B: Cloaking is broken

Problem B is actually more involved than this simple version. Let's expose the issue better for this context:

Problem B: Cloaking is broken by being perfectly reported in local AND by being undetectable on a level of specific location.

If you look at it logically, you have two absolute factors here, each countering the other.
You KNOW the cloaked ship is present. 100%
You CANNOT KNOW exactly where it is. 100%

Knowing the cloaked vessel is present, makes cloaking a joke.
Local Residents: Stealth who? Bob, we can all see you in chat, duh!

Being unable to subsequently find it, however, at least recovers some value for the effort being made.
Bob: Hah! Can't find me!

It reduces cloaking from a genuine stealth ability, to a utility for use in hostile areas to avoid being scanned down.

Genuine cloaking only exists in a wormhole.
The rest of EVE simply has the ability to hide, but their presence is always common knowledge.

I maintain they are interconnected, on a very fundamental level. Your argument denies the valid cause and effect relationship that they share. You insist on focusing entirely on the effect, or symptom, and avoid the cause itself.

If we isolate ourselves to ignoring local, then for balance sake we must not be exclusive to the play mechanic, but the behavior in general.
The ability to do anything forever is an issue, in that case.
The solution is to create a threshold of minimum activity, and anyone falling short of that is logged out.
They can be boosting from a POS, sitting in an outpost, anything in game where specific interaction falls below this required threshold.

This seems draconian, but at least your AFK cloakers go poof, along with AFK anything. I do not see CCP adopting this.

The fact remains, that players are only entitled to security to a level that they can provide and maintain.
If one defensive tactic is failing, due to being countered, then use another.

Cloaking in this context is both counterintelligence as well as potential for PvP.
It is perfectly acceptable play, as is logging out an alt at a sensitive location for a future ambush.

Your declaration that this play style cannot be overcome, and must be subsequently removed, is broken by the evidence of players who do overcome it.

I am sorry this challenge is more than you feel comfortable with.
I know of a few players who actually embrace the psychological conflict itself, as enjoyable play.

Yes, two negatives cancel each other out...or instead fix the root problem. In this case the root problem is local as an intel mechanic. It is a double edged sword as everyone who has suffered from an AFK cloaked camper knows.

What you want is to get rid of one edge of the sword--i.e. and unbalanced solution.

Separating intel and local would solve the AFK cloaking.

You want mining / ratting ships to be more vulnerable but AFK cloaked ships to remain invulnerable while AFK and even more invisible by removing them from local. So you want more risk in null by keeping a near zero risk mechanic in place?

I'd like to see cov-ops cyno field generators be cruiser class minimum modules, as it doesn't seem to be the role of a stealth bomber, more a recon ship / strat cruiser / blops ability. This wont fix anything I know and is a slightly off topic, Just my 2 cents.

again you say you want more vulnerability... but you don't want your invulnerability to suffer?

I'm not just going of that one post of yours .... yes I've read it... i've also read the ridiculous links in your signature and many of your previous posts!

you want to make null sec more dangerous and PVE ships in null more vulnerable... but you want one class of ships to remain invulnerable and even invisible on local!

The thing that makes null sec work is the social networks, alliances and co-operation of many, many players that form intel channels and through diplomacy try to secure their sov... but you want to make all these player generated social interactions useless because you feel that teamwork, diplomacy and social skills matter less than allowing a player to sit AFK and cloaked in a system with invulnerability... because his upset that the defense and intel generated by a vast amount of players is too much!

guess what.... If all these player generated interactions allowing for the formation, stability and longevity of alliances in Null where easily bypassed, say by removing cloaked ships from local... Null sec would collapse and I mean COLLAPSE...

If you want to stop a large amount of players co-operating together to defend their home and break their intel, get a bunch of friends together and invade, rip down their POS's and take sov.. you just need some friends 1st.

You know, this thread really should have been named "AFK Cloaking Collection tied to local Thread."

I do not agree that changes to cloaking require changes to local mechanics (or vice versa), or that the solution to the afk cloaking issue requires changes to local mechanics.

I also emphasize that cyno blobbing is far too overpowered, especially when combat begins immediately after the hotdrop. Any mechanic which greatly encourages the hotdropping group to hotdrop off-grid or which greatly limits the total mass of the ships jumped through will greatly balance cynos. Blue balling through cynos is currently ridiculous. Some kind of penalty to targeting delay, scan res, and signature should be added to those who use cynos.

Also, any talk of wormholes should include emphasis on the lack of cynos or infinite mass gates there.

Lastly, most players consider the local mechanic to be fine. Those who desire more challenge and excitement should look to gameplay beyond mining; known space local does not need any changes, especially with cynos and war decs allowed.

Invulnerable and invisible in local.

Except for the ability to find them and destroy them, that is.

You DO realize, I hope, that one of the links is specific to hunting cloaked vessels?