Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This.

With trivial preparation, and simply observing a source of effort free intel, pilots are able to avoid more risk than comparable pilots in high sec.
Why? Simply because their counterparts in high sec do NOT have a viable option to avoid neutral contacts listed which may be gankers, while our null sec pilots can avoid all non blues in systems where this is an issue.

This dumbs down rewards in null. Do not assume the devs are oblivious to the common lack of risk / effort involved with PvE in null.

Do not assume PvE pilots in null are all blind sheep who like this either. It sucks to have our game dumbed down to the level where we are force fed free intel, just so Joe Clueless can feel special operating in 0.0 space.
Competing for us means making more effort to be safe, but that fails hard where no effort to gather intel can be more effective.

Look at it this way, Local Chat is a bot providing intel. Someone stop that bot, and raise the bar for effort AND rewards both.

Where exactly did I ask for 100% safety or certainty? Only thing I have problem with is that you can affect a system by not even playing.

It's true that if you are AFK you will not harm anyone. But people living there don't know that you are AFK. Besides if they start ignoring you then you will become active and hot drop them to get kills. That's what we do to others and it's exactly as much elite pvp crap when goons do it as when anyone else does it. There has to be a reasonable counter to anything in the game. There is no reasonable counter to afk cloaking. Having a full PvP fleet on standby 23,5/7 is not a reasonable counter!

I know that a lot of people want easy kills but you have to look at it from the pov for the other guy too. I personally don't need to rat at all. My isk comes from other sources but that does not mean that everyone in the game is in the same situation and can just ignore AFK cloakers.

At some point people will simply move to high sec and run missions as that will be more profitable due to lack of losing ships. That means that alts will be in high sec instead of 0.0 and there will be a lot less stuff going on in 0.0.
Everyone loses just because a few wanted easy kills.

PS: CCP has already stated that they do not like the AFK cloaking mechanic so change is coming no matter how much forces of elite pvp whine.

Tell them to hurry up and leave.

I am sick of seeing them suck up my ore, and being handed free intel to protect themselves with.

Mining in null is more like a daycare for small children with the bar set this low, and the rewards prove that when you can compare them with ANYTHING in high sec.

CCP is unhappy with local as an intel tool. AFK cloaking is a symptom of local, not the disease itself. Local is so powerful and broken that the only way to counter it is to build character specifically for doing so and leave your computer on 23/7. Who in there right mind would dedicate that much time and resources to killing ratters unless they had no choice?

What we need, as CCP (Soundwave I believe?) mentioned during Fanfest is an alternate method of detecting ships. Once that's in, CCP can remove local. That will allow smart pilots with situational awareness and knowledge of the tools available to them to survive while the rest die off. We need tools that can be used correctly or incorrectly or not at all. Not a magic box that tells you to dock up.

Until then, AFK cloaking is a bandage, or more accurately a tourniquet. It's not an ideal situation, but it's better than the alternative where there would be absolutely no method of fighting anyone who doesn't want to fight.

You got me. Those elite pvp ratters are trying to prey on the AFK cloaking carebears.

Also, thank you. I actually laughed out loud reading your response.

Can't agree more...

The differences between nullsec space and w-space are more than just the lack of local. Nullsec on its own has static connections to other systems and known topography, none of which you can control. In w-space one can collapse a connection to a dangerous system and negate a part of the risk.

Furthermore, it is easier to monitor a single hole than a region of nullsec systems - similarily, the content of a single wormhole provides rewards that vastly outclass the value of a single nullsec system. This partially compensates for increased risk brought in by the lack of local.

A complete removal of local would likely deal a big blow to nullsec logistics - something nowadays required in a sov holding alliance. The fundamental difference between w and null is cynos and hotdropping - it's not that hard to drop on someone, especially if people don't even know the potential hotdropper is there. This is, however, a part of null flavor, and removal of it would make many players (me included) really sad and/or angry.

Would be nice if that method was active and advocated hunting for people disturbing your Elite Ratters.

That is so....badass! Scanning down a ship with an AFK player and forcing a confrontation.

Next time try to read my post before going on elite pvp nerd rage against it.

I explicitly said reasonable counter! It is not reasonable to lock up 30 people guarding 5 miners in case the AFK cloaker decides to do something (AFK cloaker that can see the preparations for a warm welcome and simply decide to not engage until the defenders get tired of the waiting). I know how AFK cloaking works. Goons have done it to many alliances and completely shut down their systems. It works well because it is completely one sided. AFK cloaker has all the initiative, there is no way to force him to fight. It's basically High Sec ganking level of risk. You look for a juicy target and then you cyno in the fleet that makes a short work of it and that's it. No risk what so ever.

At some point someone will bait the cloaker and have a counter gang but that is easily avoided by just not attacking for a while. After some time they will stop having a bunch of people sit on a blops or a titan, bored out of their skulls, waiting for the cloaker to make a move.

So in the end it's true elite pvp. No risk for the attacker. You can all go join James315 in high sec and attack newbie industrial corporations. That's the level of risk and skill it takes.

As to being risk averse (word is averse not advised):
It's not being risk averse if you simply calculate in the very likely ship loss in to your isk/hour/effort calculation. At some point it just becomes more profitable to be in high sec and run missions.
If CCP implemented a function that just completely randomly blows up your ship if you are in some part of the space would you call it risk adverse if people moved away? Some risk is acceptable. People deal with risk all the time. Despite all the local intel many ratters get killed every day and they still are there. Because there is a balance between the risk and reward. With AFK cloaking there is no balance. There is hugely increased risk for the locals and exactly zero risk for the afk cloaker as there is no way to force non-consensual pvp on him.

Fortunately for EVE the devs have started looking at both sides of the equation and understand that if they let elite PvP reign unchecked the eve will become a very empty place.

PS: just imagine how fun it would be for you guys if only alts in 0.0 were combat alts. No ratters, no PI people just combat fleets roaming around. The tears would be impressive. Just because you don't realise that there needs to be risk on both sides and a balance. Getting free and cheap kills is fun (at least you seem to think it) but it removes the targets after a while and then the only people left are people who will shoot back at which point you will be back on the forums whining about 0.0 blobbing and what not.

Eve = Everyone verses Everyone, not We have Sov in such and such system so should know with absolute certainty where every player is and what they're doing at all times. It's utter fail to think that CCP should change a tactic in the game just because you or others are paranoids A**hats. And it is a tactic. It's meant for intel gathering, scare tactic (shut the system down so-to-speak), etc. There is NO good reason for CCP to change this without them inadvertently screwing up the entire point of cloaking ships.



This exactly. What people are saying about AFK Cloakers isn't what they mean. They want to have TOTAL control over the PvP in their territory and a cloaked ship puts a monkey wrench in that plan, which is the very point of said cloaked ship. Well too damn bad, that's why Eve is Space WAR!

Your solution is not a viable one and you know it just as we know it. That's why we all use afk cloaking to shut down systems. It would not work so well if the solution you presented was actually feasible.
Having a lot of people sit around bored waiting to see if the AFK cloaker will do something is even worse reaction than moving to high sec mission running. It just ruins the game for many more people for no good reason.

Feasible solution is one that is not completely one sided. One that actually involves non consensual PvP for the afk cloaker as well.

And CCP understands this. Elite PvP peeps will cry and there will be a lot of tears but in the end there will be a balance for both sides. Same case was with ganking mining barges in high sec. CCP fixed it and the elite cried like babies.
It's a basic principle of game design, balance. Drawbacks for both sides and, in eve, non consensual pvp for both sides.