Player Features and Ideas Discussion

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NightmareX,

I was talking about AFK cloaking and how the supposed "fixes" also nerf active cloaking. You pulled out my comments on active cloaking being nerfed and responded to that as if I was not talking about AFK cloaking. That is called quoting out of context and it is a debating technique that is not very honest.

1. Show me where I quoted you out of context.
2. Considering your recent...errors, regarding what I've written,

I don't think you have much of leg to stand on.

Whatever, you are just being a deliberate distraction. I notice you have totally failed to respond to this post.

Go, read through the last 104 pages, at least that should keep you busy for awhile.

Yes, and I acknowledged that one. But you don't admit that.

Keep going, I like the bumps to the thread.

Oh, and as usual you are contributing practically nothing. Just more useless drivel. Maybe that idea you were working on?



Edit:

I did not write those posts by the way...unless you think I'm CCP Explorer.

Whatever. Thanks for the bump.

Tell you what, here are a number of questions I'd like to see answered first. Nothing major, very simple questions actually. I've asked them before, but they often go unanswered.

If you are in a system, ratting, mining, camping, whatever. Does local allow you to see them first, them to see you first, or see each other at the same time?

If the answer anything other than, "both at the same time" do you think this conveys an advantage, however slight, to the either the resident(s) of a system (if the answer is the resident sees the entrant first) or to the entrant (if the answer is the entrant sees the resident(s) first)?

Is this result based on things the player does or is it purely mechanical--i.e. you get it no matter what you do, whether or not you hold sov, etc.?

Given the above answers, is it reasonable to conclude that changes to the game to deal with AFK cloaking that:

A. Nerf active cloaks,
B. Leave that benefit, if it exists, in place are nothing short of a buff to people already in a system, however slight?

I'll consider revising the first post if somebody answers these.

Note: If local does provide a mechanical difference between who see's whom first, the entrant or the resident, then there are definite answers (to the first question at least). That is, the answer to the first question could be, "The resident," or "The entrant". This can also be tested in game and, I have done it many times (I have industrial alts in....gasp null, and since I often use one as a scout and the other to do stuff™, I have seen the results many, many times--oh and so much for many of Vas' claims). So feel free to try and avoid answering the above, but then I wont alter the OP. Now, if you think I am wrong, making a simple youtube video showing me as wrong would be sufficient.

Note 2: Since people have had trouble with this before, the "you" used above is the indefinite you.



Yes, probably not the best grammar, but considering this is a forum where "u mad bro" is often considered the height of witticism...I don't see it as that egregious an error.

TL;DR: Don't get your panties in knot over the word "you" above.

Sounds reasonable enough. Rest assured I do not do pointless "you mad bro" stuff.
So, who sees who first? If the hostile has a blue alt already in system that never engages, then the hostile sees first long before the hostile enters the region. If the blue has an alt in the neighboring system(s), then the blue sees first one system out. Both require effort by placing the alt and monitoring its local and its grid. If there are no alts, then the blue may see the hostile about one region out in intel (which sometimes captures intel on the ship with visual sightings or dscan on the stargate). If there is no intel channel, then the blue sees the hostile while the grid is loading. Once the grid is loaded and the hostile can warp, the blues are also seen; seeing the blues before warp is an option is rather useless anyway. This grid-loading part is purely "mechanical." Alignment from a stop by sentry carriers is also a purely mechanical issue which requires around 40s. Sentry domis operate in a similar manner. Sov has no effect on any of these features.

Given the above answers and my love for cloaks, I would say that it is not reasonable to nerf active cloaks. I would say that residents do get a couple seconds advanced warning, but with a blue warp-in bm on the right target, that buff can easily be negated completely.

And if there is an aversion for using blue scouts (non-combat), there is always the option to use bubble traps and login traps (to name a few) which buy more time (negating the couple second advanced warning) when you return to system.

Hope this answers your questions well enough.

The idea is a 60 second delay for ALL new listings.

Having a cloak is not required for this at all.

It does mean, however, that even a cloaked ship cannot hot drop you unless it can convince you to wait a minute on grid with it.
Which means, you get to fight back against a locked down ship for 60 seconds.

This is an alternate idea to what I have in my link, which is fully delayed, but only for three types of circumstances. those three never getting to see local either. The trade off on that, is that the cloaked ships become vulnerable to being hunted.

They have different approaches.

If the interdictors and their friends came through the gate system, and locked you down with a bubble, it means they also went through every defense your corp / alliance had in place.

This reflects either poor effort on the defender's part, or superior effort on the part of the hostiles.

I would advise against rewarding poor effort, since it reflects apathy at best, and betrayal of allies at worst. Blame your team in that case.
I would also advise against diminishing the results of superior effort, as that equally diminishes the reasons to produce such efforts. We want more epic stories to speak of in eve, and the legend: Did you hear about the interdictor with the three force recons could be retold many times....