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Seemingly Mindless Pvp: Any Relevant Point?

First post
Author
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#21 - 2013-03-18 00:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Asmodai Xodai wrote:


Right, I don't have friends who play this game. And either way, I have no inclination to waste my time "getting back" at these people, I just wondered whether there was some real point I was missing - say accruing experience points for any kind of kill, etc.

As to gazelles and lions, if you read my post you would understand that I already understand the point to a lion killing a gazelle. That's utterly rational. I'm asking what's the point to doing such a thing where there is no benefit.


The point to playing a game is that its fun. Plainly the other parties enjoy popping your ships, so plainly they are getting their moneys worth from their sub.

The rational problem is why are you playing that game with them if you don't enjoy the game, or can't find a method of turning the tables on them such that the outcome is one you enjoy.

and yes this is a multiplayer game, and luring, baiting and escalating are common strategies, as is working together, as is denial to resources - which is a good reason from preventing you making a home in a system they occupy - because you might be in a belt today, but doing *their* anoms tomorrow and whilst it might be difficult to claim anything in highsec, its certainly pretty easy to stake a claim to something in lowsec.

edit : ingame friends are a perfectly reasonable substitution for outofgame friends, ie why play a social game if you can't make new friends.
Asmodai Xodai
#22 - 2013-03-18 00:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodai Xodai
Slymah wrote:
It really doesn't matter what the reasons are .. the only thing you need to figure out is why you are always a victim.


No mystery there. I'm a noob, I have played the game approximately one month, and I test 0.4 sec systems in noobships because I read on the forums that people should get out of high-sec every once in a while. I simply want to see what's there. So if there are people who get off on attacking noobs in noobships, of course I'm gonna be the "victim" - not that I consider myself much of a victim, as I literally lose nothing. Hell, they lose more in ammo.

Quote:
Try being the cat. You might like it.


I'll be a rational cat one day in the future - attacking mice or birds for a rational game reason. I won't do it just to do it - I would consider it a waste of my time.

Not that I care, but I do think it somewhat strange that on the one hand all one ever hears are people putting down noobs and carebears for staying in high-sec, but the instant one ventures to even a 0.4 system in a non-threatening noobship he gets blown to smithereens. If folks are truly interested in getting more high sec players into lower sec systems (I don't really care either way), it seems a strange way to go about it.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#23 - 2013-03-18 00:47:41 UTC
There could be any number of "good" reasons to pop your ship OP. One of the main two that spring to mind is that you could be a scout or moving something valuable and hoping to not be noticed because you are in a noobie ship.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.

Ken 1138
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-03-18 00:55:07 UTC
It's quite simple, people really do "get off" on killing anything player related from noob ships to property. This is what I've learned from all types of games from shooters to MMOs like EVE. Since the start of online gaming many many people only play a game to ruin someone's day. EVE can have that hard hitting impact. However...

High sec wars and random PVP never make sense to me. The other side, the aggressor side isn't gaining anything, even if the kill drops something of value. Cost of buying the ship, fitting the ship, arming the ship, stocking the ship with ammo, waiting for a target and killing the target. You have lost everything. ISK, time, maybe even your ship and let's be honest respect from the other player. For what? A almost nothing bounty, a kill board post that few if anyone except yourself even look at?

If you're talking SOV space PVP, now you're talking. You have everything to gain or lose. Everything from the way you sustain yourself and your alliance to the very way you live. PVP makes perfect sense for that and it you wardec them so you can hunt them in high sec space well then go for it i say! I am very aware of mercs who clear out WHs and sov space for people but that's one of the many "careers" one can do in EVE and someone is gaining something in the end like sweet sweet space.

After all these years of playing I truly think people are so bored with themselves that getting the (i'm in not using the term lightly here) "sexual thrill" of killing a player even just your noob ship over and over and over. Is the only way they keep going.

Unless someone has some other reason I'm clearly blind too for such things?



Ester Andedare
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-03-18 00:58:39 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
]

I'll be a rational cat one day in the future - attacking mice or birds for a rational game reason. I won't do it just to do it - I would consider it a waste of my time.

Not that I care, but I do think it somewhat strange that on the one hand all one ever hears are people putting down noobs and carebears for staying in high-sec, but the instant one ventures to even a 0.4 system in a non-threatening noobship he gets blown to smithereens. If folks are truly interested in getting more high sec players into lower sec systems (I don't really care either way), it seems a strange way to go about it.


I'm a noob who went to live in low sec after a week of playing.

As soon as you venture forth it doesn't matter what you're in. That's the first thing that should be learned from newbies venturing . Low sec is not safe and even just an exploration jaunt requires more awareness and some basic survival skills beyond whatever ship you're in.

As some people have already commented there are numerous reasons why someone would kill a noob ship. It may just be because it's fun. There's scouting and scouting is used for more then just finding gatecamps. There's transport. Some people transport crazy expensive things in noobships thinking that people won't bother with them. The other day someone from my corp shot a noobship and got 60 million isk worth of loot dropping. Sometimes people don't want any other people in that area of space and control it by shooting. Wouldn't matter what ship you were in. You show up, you get attacked.

This is all just the way low-sec works. Nothing is considered non-threatening or not as potential isk dropper. My advice would be to read up on some of the basic survival skills of low sec travel and get out of a noobship and into something that has a better chance of evading as your flying around. These don't have to be expensive ships at all. I fly around in frigates all the time. My favorite for travel back and forth is just a humble and cheap Probe. Fitted and flown defensively it can easily make it's way around low-sec without getting blown-up.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-03-18 01:01:40 UTC
I'd take a shuttle instead of a noob ship if you want to practice low-sec travel, it's almost insta-warp off gates. further to that you need to learn about MWD + cloak tricks for getting past gate-camps and making undock instawarp bookmarks for effortlessly dodging station campers. just google around and you'll find what you need. it's quite rewarding to employ these tactics and leave these guys in the dust. with the right ship fit and a little knowledge you can survive in low on your own.

forums.  serious business.

Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-03-18 01:10:02 UTC
Welcome to EVE, the game made for baby seal clubbers.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#28 - 2013-03-18 01:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
Some people kill just to kill, the age and history of the character and the ship type are irrelevant to these people. Some hope for some tasty tears that they can rub all over themselves to make them feel better (lots of the scum in EvE kill to bask in another persons misery, so please try not to feed them!). Others can't discount the possibility that any ship could potentially be carrying an absolute fortune in small-sized but high-value items. I've seen examples of very new characters being killed and dropping crazy loot, such as T2 blueprint originals (Obviously an alt of a rich player).

I generally assume that everyone in lowsec is likely to shoot first and not bother asking questions. Shocked

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#29 - 2013-03-18 01:22:21 UTC
All of your points could be said about EVE in it's entirety.

I told my boss at work who I get on with a very few things about what I do in my spare time on EVE, he laughed at me and said it sounds pointless to him.

It is, I get literally no benefit from playing this game other then the enjoyment it brings, which isn't rational in the slightest. Other then RMTing your way through the game (don't, it's against the rules) you get no material benefit, and apart from a very small handful of individuals you will never amount to any level of fame (or infamy).

If I see you in a noobship in low or null I'll shoot you. Why? Because I can, and because if the tables were turned I'd expect you to shoot me.

Whether we like to admit it or not, everyone playing this game for any length of time is very odd. One of the best things about this game is if you really hate someone, you can ruin their day. If you're flying a noobship one of three things will happen:

1) You'll shrug it off and not be bothered, in which case we've both lost nothing.
2) You'll lose nothing but a noobship but get mad (or "thoughtful") and post something like this, which is amusing
3) You will have been doing something like carrying PLEX in the ship, in which case i laff (and maybe get some PLEX)

On the other hand, if I don't shoot you I don't get any of the potential benefits of enjoying shooting you, but all of the risks (you may be a scout, cyno etc).

If you've ever studied game theory you'd get why every player shoots noobships, it's because it costs you nothing and there are possible benefits whereas not shooting you doesn't even have the possibility of benefits.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-03-18 01:30:14 UTC
But he doesn't do it for no reason, he does it for tears. Which you duly provided. Hopefully he's seen this forum thread now aswell for a bonus session,
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-03-18 01:33:38 UTC
Ken 1138 wrote:
It's quite simple, people really do "get off" on killing anything player related from noob ships to property. This is what I've learned from all types of games from shooters to MMOs like EVE. Since the start of online gaming many many people only play a game to ruin someone's day. EVE can have that hard hitting impact. However...

High sec wars and random PVP never make sense to me. The other side, the aggressor side isn't gaining anything, even if the kill drops something of value. Cost of buying the ship, fitting the ship, arming the ship, stocking the ship with ammo, waiting for a target and killing the target. You have lost everything. ISK, time, maybe even your ship and let's be honest respect from the other player. For what? A almost nothing bounty, a kill board post that few if anyone except yourself even look at?



I feel the same way about people who do nothing but mine, or mission, or station trade to accumulate stupid amounts of ISK without ever using it on anything but more mining accounts or a more pimped mission running ship.
Asmodai Xodai
#32 - 2013-03-18 01:37:58 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
If you've ever studied game theory you'd get why every player shoots noobships, it's because it costs you nothing and there are possible benefits whereas not shooting you doesn't even have the possibility of benefits.


Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.

And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.

Quote:
But he doesn't do it for no reason, he does it for tears. Which you duly provided. Hopefully he's seen this forum thread now aswell for a bonus session


If he imagined that I provided tears, and if he imagines that I am providing more now, then more power to him, and I hope he has a good jerk-off session over it. And you too, if that's what floats your boat.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#33 - 2013-03-18 01:39:42 UTC
The hostility and aggressiveness of human nature is the reality. If you think that this is unfair, then you not realistic. The perpetual aggressiveness and hostility of Eve is what defines the danger of the zones that your in. The universe is a dangerous place.

Though I admit that 'war' that is motivated by economic losses and gains is more interesting.

yk
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-03-18 01:43:38 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:

Actually, I have studied game theory. I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the overwhelming number of people who play this game haven't (including the behavior of those you are trying to explain). In other words, I don't think people studying game theory explains this behavior.

And there is possibility of non-benefits. Everybody who shot me with a missle lost, because they paid for the missle but gained nothing. Meanwhile, I lost nothing. It's kind of funny.

If he imagined that I provided tears, and if he imagines that I am providing more now, then more power to him, and I hope he has a good jerk-off session over it. And you too, if that's what floats your boat.


They don't need to have studied game theory to understand that the gains of shooting a noobship(possible cargo loot, denial of enemy intel, tears) outweigh the losses(a bit of ammo, some sec status, a short criminal and weapons lock timer).
And you may have taken me too literally about the tears. You were clearly upset about the loss, or else you wouldn't have discussed the loss with the pirate and made this thread,
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-03-18 01:46:46 UTC
Slymah wrote:
I'm sure that's what all these litter birds and mice are thinking when my cat kills them.

After all she doesn't eat them.. She just kills things for no reason.


Cats play with wounded mice aswell. They're evil bastards.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-03-18 01:48:00 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Some people don't care where their killmails come from. It isn't about the challenge, it is about the kill.
One on one PvP in this game is based largely on gear. Being able to use gear comes from gaining SP. To gain SP all you have to do is start an account. To have better gear all you have to do is be subbed for longer than the other guy.
The "leets", such as the one that killed the OP want to have a feeding frenzy. They want to "make it rain" killmails without any real risk then call people "carebears". Irony?



SItting on a lowsec gatecamp is hardly a zero risk activity.
Asmodai Xodai
#37 - 2013-03-18 02:00:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Asmodai Xodai
Quote:
You were clearly upset about the loss, or else you wouldn't have discussed the loss with the pirate and made this thread


Why would I be upset about the loss of a noobship that I fully intended to be lost? Indeed, how on earth can a noobship even be lost, since they are replaced for free?

Or perhaps you imply that I lost skillpoints or implants by having been podded? Check the killboards - I wasn't podded.

You confuse trying to understand the game, and trying to understand human psychology, with "being upset." And the understanding has been invaluable. Understand this, my friend. Probably unknowingly, you insulted these folks (and possibly yourself) far more than I ever did or could have. You said that these people essentially jerk off to other people's tears or misery. What kind of human being has such a miserable existence that he plays a game in order to take pleasure in what he imagines to be another person's suffering? I can't think of a greater form of lowlife.

It's hard to judge someone's "tone" through their writing, however if you were in any way "defending" (vs. simply explaining) said behavior, you put yourself in their camp.

At any rate, if what you said is true, I guess I learned something extremely valuable. Probably the best way to deal with such lowlife perverts in the future is the same way you deal with a crank caller who breathes heavy into your phone. You just hang up.
Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-03-18 02:08:05 UTC
How about - all noobships are cynos.

Even if they are not cynos, they are not us.

Shoot it. NBSI is the whole rule of the law.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-03-18 02:09:05 UTC
Asmodai Xodai wrote:


At any rate, if what you said is true, I guess I learned something extremely valuable. Probably the best way to deal with such lowlife perverts in the future is the same way you deal with a crank caller who breathes heavy into your phone. You just hang up.


Yeah, pretty much. There's really not much to talk about after a gatecamp gank.

Also if you want to scout use a shuttle, they're a fair bit faster warping and most camps will struggle to catch them.
Grimbriar Blitz
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-03-18 02:37:24 UTC
Having played for one month (I post on an alt), I can honestly say that given my ~10-15 deaths trying to learn PvP, trying out null and low sec and just generally flying about, I haven't had any smack talk yet.

In fact, one of the guys who gave me a particularly embarrassing death convo'd me afterwards and gave me some great advice - some ships I might like given what I'd say I'd like my playstyle to be, skill paths, general tips for PvP, ways to avoid dying in the same way again etc.

I don't doubt the smack talk does happen, but perhaps if you had a more positive attitude you'd see more positives in it.