Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I disagree. One Optimal Disrution scripted Tracking Disruptor can completely neuter a kiting turret boat. Tracking Speed disruption can halve a brawler's DPS. It is just too damn strong. Now if you needed a bonused ship to get that kind of effectiveness, I could agree with it. But it's not a matter of bonused ships, it's every single ship can cripple a gun boat so much that there's no chance.

How many Fed Navy Comets have I faced that have a TD in the mid, and kite me at 20km? Too many. My Coercers would murder them, but then they apply the "iwin" module and turn it around entirely. And it doesn't just apply win against Coercers. My Slicers, Thrashers, Slashers, Tormentors, etc. Anything that uses turrets gets hard crippled. And it's not like I'm even facing a specific boat for TD's.

And I just picked one of the many ships I see put on a TD just because. I see Hookbills pile them on to brawl, I see Condors throw them on in their spare mids, I used to see scram range kiter Corms use them to astonishing effect (before changes). If I had one more mid, I'd put one on my Executioners.

And about your last point. I dis/agree with that. I agree in the sense that you should have to fit to counter it. But I also think that it's far worse than ECM. At least for ECM they have to rainbow their bloody Ewar unless they know exactly what they're fighting. It reminds me of the days of "spare mid? Multispectral Jammer." But the TD is just another case of that. Spare mid? TD. You hard counter ~3/4 ships in game by doing that.

The TD alone is only an invenience, it's the combination of TD+speed who is deadly. And I persist : a kiter, even with a TD, once caught, die, 99% of the time (because you may self destruct to save him...) Because the TD only work when the kiter have speed superiority. When caught with scram+web, there's nothing he can do, because his damage are too low compared to those of a close range brawler and he only have a paper tank.

In fact, it's even worse than that : the TD is often the only thing allowing the kiter to kite, because without it, anything with a tank and able to hit him would kill him or force him to warp off.

"shield capitals in pvp are on the verge of being the new meta" is more the truth. Shield Slowcats are waaay superiour to normal slowcats, the problem is as good as nobody can fly them!

For Dreads: as in siege you cant be RR'd there is no difference, just that the shield tank is actually waaay higher than the armor tank and an armor tank would force you to sacrifice DPS and drop back to 3rd best dread. So no.

I for one welcome our new 2 Turret Shield Tanking Blap Overlords.

Fairly stated, but remember I said I'd like at least a small fix for the Pheonix included this time around... although I have a feeling that any fix for the Pheonix will actually take the form of the "Meta" tweaks that will be coming presumably with this same release... quite possibly a fix for at least the capitol class missile systems.

We already know they have been putting a lot of thought into BS sized and up missile systems, the only thing we don't have yet are the details on what the nature of those tweaks will be and a time frame for implimentation.

Lets hope that they will happen this summer. We should know soon enough.

Really, my main point was simply not to bash the small tweaks they are making here and there to the T1 frigates. Iteration after a change to fine tune it is something we have been begging CCP for years to do... and these changes are fairly minor in terms of resources and time spent on them.

I don't have an issue with the skills req change at all. And yes, I understand that cap support skills are a long haul, however the removal of BSV for caps removes about a month of training time for that. That's just a fact. Cap proliferation is just the way things are currently; I doubt the skill change will significantly affect that at all.

All I was pointing out was that much of null has the subcap and support skills already (due to the popularity of alpha maels for a long time) and it would be a relatively very short hop to get large numbers of pilots into arty nags, and asking if that fact could significantly affect the current null meta in the form of Alpha Nag fleets. Or will we just see more Nags used in existing dread fleets/doctrines?

please explain, if you think the phoenix is crap you make me lol

Seriously?

2 TDs on condors are "nearly useless"? Three RSDs on the hookbill? What, do you want them to be able to be as horribly annoying as they are now with only 1 of these modules fitted?

Seriously?

Michael hit at the core of the issue here; ewar, and its ability to be run perpetually, at the frig level. Why the hell can the condor run MWD, point, plus two TDs, forever, exactly?

If CPU cost is so "insane", how come so many ships seem to fit and run them with no problems? Hookbills and Condors are of course the worst offenders here, but any form of ewar is crippling at the frigate level, and that just compounds the issue of more midslot ships being nearly universally better than ships with less mids. Add to this the fact that shield tanks are simply faster than armor tanks, and that shield tanks naturally work better with more mids (ofc) and the problem grows even more noticeable.

A ship with a 3/4/2 layout is simply better than a ship with a 3/2/4 layout (edit here, AT THE T1 FRIG LEVEL!) Period. With so many hulls being revamped to be useful, it only grows harder to balance them correctly. It almost feels like CCP should try to correctly balance 1 or 2 frigs per race and get them actually working right BEFORE trying to add or change more.

The Rifter could use some love, but of course, I am biased here; I fly Minmatar. The Rifter is not terrible, but it isnt exactly good. I will leave discussion of "what it needs" for people not quite so attached to it, I think.

I don't know if that +50armor was what Fozzie indirectly announced some few months ago about "Something big coming for Rifter". I know balance changes need to come slow but I think that is way too slow.

I know I've been rambling for quite some time on this, I think it is safe to say that the Slasher and other frigs surpass the Rifter in various fields - yes yes, bit more fitting room here and there, but that is nothing really.

The only thing I just don't know if we (or I) should re-reiterate all the stuff again here, of that had been said in various threads before - or if CCP even wants to hear our ongoing lamentations about Rifter :D. Not sure if anybody even wants to hear suggestions or anything.

But just seeing that +50 simply hits me with that brainfart of having Rifter, Punisher, Tristan and Merlin be cloned into a seperate real "Heavy Frigate" where they have more hp and whatever is missing, so they stand out more vs other frigates. Oh well.

TBH, the Phoenix isn't even any good at hitting POS. It's way outdamaged by the Moros and the future Naglfar, with the former doing also high-kinetic damage and the latter having mostly-selectable damage types too - and neither losing applied DPS because of missile flight times during siege cycles. The only thing the Phoenix has going for it is alpha, which isn't really very useable, and, er, it doesn't need to move about the POS as much when shooting mods, if for some reason you have haven't just used supercaps to disable the defences.

To make the Phoenix a useful dreadnought while retaining missiles you need to give it an advantage at hitting POS and capital commensurate with its inferiority at the blap game. This probably means something like a 50% damage increase! This is an unrealistic boost and will not happen.

Nice to see that Naglfar will be useful. I wish you would fix Phoenix too because it's a hardly can be called a Dreadnought.

I'm a bit concerned that Naglfar might become overpowered after this change. Compared to other dreads (Revelation/Moros) it will be only one with following distinctive advantages:

1. Selectable damage type. It's impossible to fortify a PoS against it's damage.
2. Cap-free weapon. Being able to use jump drive right after a siege cycle is not a thing to ignore.

With a changes to capital ships skill requirements it won't take much time to reassign dread pilots from one dread to another. Those Naglfare changes could possibly change the way Drednoughts are used.