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[Odyssey] T1 Frigate Polish Pass and Naglfar fix

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Meduza13
Silver Octopus
Infernal Octopus
#301 - 2013-03-24 18:19:33 UTC
Talking about dreadnoughts. There are 4 races and 4 types of dreadnoughts, they are all good in doing some things and have own minuses too. Lets don't make all ships having same bonuses, statistics but just different looks, what is the point of it? All this balancing business goes a bit over the top.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#302 - 2013-03-25 22:56:54 UTC
The rifter is my 3rd most used ship behind condor and incursus.

I feel the rifter is fine tbh but I'll tkae the PG and Armour boost as I prefer an armour fit normally.

The thing with the rifter is STOP being a sheep and flying a cookie cutter fit that is 9 months out of date!!

My standard rifter puts out about 150dps with faction ammo and goes about 1160m/s. With this I can pretty much outrun any of the brawling combat frigs and out brawl any of the brawling attack frigs. It rely's on it's speed and agility and with the recetn changes to the armour tanking mods gets a decent rep with a SAAR.

The punisher is also a great ship to fly. especially in a small frig gang. Fit it with MWD to get into fights, Nos to aid cap and DPL's with metastasis rigs. I have yet to have a frig get under my guns in this, yet I can hit easily out to scram range. True if the opponent is savvy they can disengage pretty easily but guess what...that doesn't happen that often as most people see the punisher as an easy target. But the DPS is solid as you'll always be firing in optimal range and if flown fit correctly you can minimise the tracking issues. So you end up with a solid frig that hits hard and consistantly....

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#303 - 2013-03-25 23:24:44 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
The rifter is my 3rd most used ship behind condor and incursus.

I feel the rifter is fine tbh but I'll tkae the PG and Armour boost as I prefer an armour fit normally.

The thing with the rifter is STOP being a sheep and flying a cookie cutter fit that is 9 months out of date!!

My standard rifter puts out about 150dps with faction ammo and goes about 1160m/s. With this I can pretty much outrun any of the brawling combat frigs and out brawl any of the brawling attack frigs. It rely's on it's speed and agility and with the recetn changes to the armour tanking mods gets a decent rep with a SAAR.

The punisher is also a great ship to fly. especially in a small frig gang. Fit it with MWD to get into fights, Nos to aid cap and DPL's with metastasis rigs. I have yet to have a frig get under my guns in this, yet I can hit easily out to scram range. True if the opponent is savvy they can disengage pretty easily but guess what...that doesn't happen that often as most people see the punisher as an easy target. But the DPS is solid as you'll always be firing in optimal range and if flown fit correctly you can minimise the tracking issues. So you end up with a solid frig that hits hard and consistantly....


If you're killing people with a rifter you're fighting scrubs.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Castellan Garran Crowe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#304 - 2013-03-26 23:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Castellan Garran Crowe
Ahhh you fools, fly Rifter like a Mini Typhoon, it works really good!!!

High
x2 Rocket Launcher II
x2 200mm Autocannon II
Medium
x1 1MN Limited MicroWarpdrive I
x1 Fient Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
x1 Fleeting Propultion Inhibitor I
Low
x1 Damage Control II
x1 Adaptive Nano Plating II
x1 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Rigs
x1 Anti-Explosive Pump I
x2 Trimark Armour Pump I

PS - This is not a Troll Post
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2013-03-26 23:58:47 UTC
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; The Tristan needs some serious work.
Currently, it's easily the worst performing ship its class.

Low damage, no fitting, low speed, low ehp, and the most expensive to fit. There isn't a single thing that it excels at.
The proposed changes don't solve any of these problems.

It doesn't have the grid to fit a very nice tank (to make up for its slowness).
It doesn't have the speed to be an effective kiting ship.
It doesn't have the grid/damage to be a good brawling ship.

The Tristans style/cost doesn't help matters either. Before drones, fitting a Tristan isn't very costly, but once you have to add drones to the mix, you have far and away, the most expensive T1 combat frigate (roughly the cost of two combat frigates).

Every other Gallente hull does a better job for any role.
The Maulus does the drone boat gig better, the Atron does the speed/tackle thing better, and the Incursus does the damage/tanking thing better.

IMO the Tristan needs a better slot layout and/or bonuses;
To start; 4 lows, 3 mids, and 2 highs.
Increase the CPU very slightly (under 3 base).
*Change the drone HP bonus to a damage bonus.

The ship doesn't have anywhere near enough fitting (cpu OR pg) to make functional use out of that utility high slot that it currently has. It also has an awful ehp/dps ratio. The extra low slot solves all of those issues. A little extra bit of CPU will mean that you can make decebt use of those lows.

Lastly, changing the drone HP bonus to a damage bonus would be wise.
The ship isn't a powerhouse, and it's not a heavy tanker. A drone HP bonus makes sense on a ship with staying power (Myrm/Eos/Ishtar/Ishkur/Domi), but not on a ship that can be taken out by a single destroyer volley. The extra drone damage would make up for the lack of powergrid which prevents large guns and high damage output.

It's currently an awful ship and the proposed changes in the OP will keep it that way.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#306 - 2013-03-27 00:19:30 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


If you're killing people with a rifter you're fighting scrubs.


Give it up already LOL

Ok you don't like the ship, Fair enough, but you hate to see other actually using it effectively.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#307 - 2013-03-27 01:02:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

TRISTAN:
+15 Veloity


That's a lot of veloity. Huh?
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#308 - 2013-03-27 01:04:52 UTC
AyayaPanda wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Yes to the double damage bonus, the skill bonuses are not changing.

As for the utility high, we think the ship will be quite competitive with the three highs and the damage bonus. We did consider leaving a utility high on it but decided to keep it more in line with its peers.



Hmm do you mean the

Incoming 5% ROF 5% dmg of Nag? : http://serpentinelogic.wordpress.com/author/serpentinelogic/


Okay so

New Nag: 5% ROF 5% dmg per level

Current Moros: 5% ROF 5% dmg per level

Current Revelation: 10% cap 5% dmg per level


Would Moros and Nag out-dps Rev a little bit too much?
How about give Reva fixed bonus (-40% or -50% cap usage), and 5% ROF 5% dmg per level as well?
or 10% cap 7.5%~10%dmg per level? (ROF is little better than flat dmg, right?)

Me no dread pilot though.


Rev is just fine as it is. The fact that the rev doesn't need to reload, and has amazing range, counteracts the higher dps of the moros and naglfar when structure bashing.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#309 - 2013-03-27 01:30:42 UTC
Robert Harrison wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
What about the Phoenix's split weapon system? It can only use a single unbonused turret - it has to jam pointless citadel launchers into the other two highslots.



Citadel Torps are amazing at anti-structure and anti-capital warfare. They just suck for blapping.


Anti-structure: Supercarriers, Titans your argument is invalid.

Anti-Capital: Supercarriers, Titans, your argument is invalid.

Not to mention a sieged Phoenix loses over half of its possible DPS if a carrier is moving at full speed (ie: aligned like it would be in a Slowcat fleet)

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#310 - 2013-03-27 12:27:53 UTC
Much good stuff here. However;

Unfortunate take-away: It's cool to have Caldari ships naturally resistant to dampeners, but where are my Fed ships with naturally high jamming resists?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#311 - 2013-03-27 12:29:08 UTC
BloodBird wrote:
Much good stuff here. However;

Unfortunate take-away: It's cool to have Caldari ships naturally resistant to dampeners, but where are my Fed ships with naturally high jamming resists?


I think drones are supposed to cover you for that. Unfortunately drones are dumb and bad, so they don't.
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
#312 - 2013-03-27 17:42:03 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
BloodBird wrote:
Much good stuff here. However;

Unfortunate take-away: It's cool to have Caldari ships naturally resistant to dampeners, but where are my Fed ships with naturally high jamming resists?


I think drones are supposed to cover you for that. Unfortunately drones are dumb and bad, so they don't.


I'm hoping they introduce a drone tracking skill and revamp drone AI so they don't MWD every time they go a few meters outside of their range. This would make drones apply more consistent DPS. It would also be neat if you could order your drones to do something if you get jammed first, such as a setting to make them automatically attack ships applying EW to you. No, really, I want to shove a swarm of drones into the next ECM boat's face.

I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.

Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever
Bum Shadow
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#313 - 2013-03-28 03:59:20 UTC
Perhaps not the right place to put this but its a frigate so here goes.

The amazing little venture! Its a wonderful ship (thank you so much CCP) for us gas miners out there. And with a tight fit it can even mine the null clouds. However it can only do this solo, throw a 2nd or 3rd miner into the mix and you'll quickly get popped.

A per level in mining frigate cloud damage resistance (even just a small one) would be really fantastic. That or perhaps reworking the null cloud damage, maybe dropping the blast radius so that 2-3 miners could each mine a cloud each in the sites without their blasts reaching out to the other clouds.

Really just anything to improve its tank to the ladar clouds would be really appreciated. A cruiser level version would perhaps be nice but the ventures speed and agility keeps it nice and low profile. We're happy with it but any help to its cloud tank or reworking the cloud damage would be a huge boon.

I'd be happy enough if you just acknowledged the fact and thought about it. As long as its not something forgotten :)

thanks.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#314 - 2013-03-28 10:22:09 UTC
Just change rifter bonus to a 5% Rof one and we are all good and done.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
To mare
Advanced Technology
#315 - 2013-03-28 10:29:39 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

TRISTAN:
+15 Veloity


That's a lot of veloity. Huh?

yep actually when you factor skill, mwd boos and the fact that most of the ppl fit speed mods on the ship 15 is quite alot and surely better than a +50 armor lol
Grace Chang
Tyrannis Enterprises
#316 - 2013-03-28 13:22:25 UTC
Have you looked at the T1 logistics frigates? It seems they are vastly underpowered for what they are intended to do. I flew a few and these are my experiences:

1. very big signature for a frig, signature tanking impossible
2. slow for a frigate, cannot kite other frigates
3. too slow to align to get off a gate camp
4. tank is mediocre at best
5. range is too low to be able to survive and rep fleet members, always in range of cruiser dps and can't run from frigs


Point 5.) seems for me the main issue. All logistic ships either have to kite or tank to survive and do their job. The frig logistics can't do either. The tanking approach is probably not solvable on a frig hull unless you drastically reduce sig (like < 30, then an AB fit MIGHT be workable), so the reasonable approach probably would be to increase repping range to 40k+.

As it is right now, the frig logistics have no advantage over t1 cruiser logistics that i could think off. It is in every regard a lesser version. Frigates usually have unique advantages over bigger hulls that can work in combat situations, but there is no advantage that translates to a frig logistic. It is useless in even small fleets. The only advantage i could see is that it can enter the lowest FW complexes but that is hardly a valid use case. I never see t1 frig logistics in regular fights, however i see lots of t1 cruiser logistics. That should give you a hint that t1 logi frigs need a second pass.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#317 - 2013-03-28 16:31:41 UTC
ELLO! WHERE DA RIFTA AT!?

Oh! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I see...

Well! back to da Incurzuz and Merling then Roll


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#318 - 2013-03-28 16:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
The rifter is my 3rd most used ship behind condor and incursus.

I feel the rifter is fine tbh but I'll tkae the PG and Armour boost as I prefer an armour fit normally.

The thing with the rifter is STOP being a sheep and flying a cookie cutter fit that is 9 months out of date!!

My standard rifter puts out about 150dps with faction ammo and goes about 1160m/s. With this I can pretty much outrun any of the brawling combat frigs and out brawl any of the brawling attack frigs. It rely's on it's speed and agility and with the recetn changes to the armour tanking mods gets a decent rep with a SAAR.

The punisher is also a great ship to fly. especially in a small frig gang. Fit it with MWD to get into fights, Nos to aid cap and DPL's with metastasis rigs. I have yet to have a frig get under my guns in this, yet I can hit easily out to scram range. True if the opponent is savvy they can disengage pretty easily but guess what...that doesn't happen that often as most people see the punisher as an easy target. But the DPS is solid as you'll always be firing in optimal range and if flown fit correctly you can minimise the tracking issues. So you end up with a solid frig that hits hard and consistantly....


If you're killing people with a rifter you're fighting scrubs.



Ha! You know. When you're not complaining in local and debating whether or not I'm using ganglinks with your corp bros (suprise I'm just really good). Or! Complaining in multiple threads. You write some funny things from time to time.

You made myself and bros get a verbal beating by our PROF for not paying attention in class. Good job sirBlink

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
White Drop
Nomads of Republic
Smile 'n' Wave
#319 - 2013-03-28 19:26:59 UTC
As an active FW pilot I can surely say that rifter is useless ship. In solo fight it has very low chances against any other ship. Slasher has the very much the same and is much better in any king of PVP. Comparing to other ships rifter has too low DPS and Tank.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#320 - 2013-03-28 21:41:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Killz
X Gallentius wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Concerning the Tristan, you appear to be doing it wrong. Smile

It sounds like you're implying that a 3 neut afterburner setup is good. It's not.

It may be better than you think.



The Tristan is indeed very powerfull. The ship can be armor or shield tanked and capable of 150 - 200 damage per second. Everyone of said setups are around 7k ehp and with armor you can just throw a tracking disruptor on thier.

It's only real weakness is drones tbh. Once someone starts shooting them damage drops off significantly.


The Kestrel is really. Some in the know would say p lame. As with most ships that use missile and TD"s, but without using lamewar it can do serious damage with rockets or light missiles.

The Tristan properly setup is in fact better than the Incursus (not after z AAR was introduced though). Thrown in a cage it can take the Merlin to town with st8 damage and tank. Well really you would want to prolong going into z merlins optimal for as long as possible.

STILL. I like z condor and EXE alot more v0v. I dont know about the breacher though. Seems to do most of what the Kestrel does except worse.


- killz

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]