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[Odyssey] T1 Frigate Polish Pass and Naglfar fix

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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#261 - 2013-03-20 07:40:24 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Am I the only person in this thread who thinks the Tristan, Breacher, and Kestrel are already borderline OP?


name one good thing about the tristan except its good looks (you can't)

Neuts, drones, tank...


Did you seriously just suggest that Drones and the tank were good things? The tank is meh and drones tend to be a bit useless.


As for someone saying here above that NOS's should be sweet on amarr ships with a couple of buffs... I agree for cruisers and above.. But the fact is that for t1 frigates that utility high is largely useless unless you're going around trying to hero tackle harbingers or something.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

To mare
Advanced Technology
#262 - 2013-03-20 09:51:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And for the quick update to the plan, we are looking at adding 1 Powergrid to the Rifter in this pass. Let us know what you think.


wow 1 WHOLE PG? that's goin to make the rifter so balanced . . .


just to be serious can you show us your ideas of a fit that could be considered balanced with this change? or are you guys just making random changes?
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#263 - 2013-03-20 10:54:09 UTC
To mare wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And for the quick update to the plan, we are looking at adding 1 Powergrid to the Rifter in this pass. Let us know what you think.


wow 1 WHOLE PG? that's goin to make the rifter so balanced . . .


just to be serious can you show us your ideas of a fit that could be considered balanced with this change? or are you guys just making random changes?

1 PG on frigs can be the difference between having a damage control and 3 tank rigs, and having no DC and 3 tank rigs or DC and a PG rig.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#264 - 2013-03-20 11:18:31 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
To mare wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And for the quick update to the plan, we are looking at adding 1 Powergrid to the Rifter in this pass. Let us know what you think.


wow 1 WHOLE PG? that's goin to make the rifter so balanced . . .


just to be serious can you show us your ideas of a fit that could be considered balanced with this change? or are you guys just making random changes?

1 PG on frigs can be the difference between having a damage control and 3 tank rigs, and having no DC and 3 tank rigs or DC and a PG rig.


Makes virtually no difference for the rifter however.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#265 - 2013-03-20 13:58:35 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Am I the only person in this thread who thinks the Tristan, Breacher, and Kestrel are already borderline OP?


name one good thing about the tristan except its good looks (you can't)

Neuts, drones, tank...


Did you seriously just suggest that Drones and the tank were good things? The tank is meh and drones tend to be a bit useless.


As for someone saying here above that NOS's should be sweet on amarr ships with a couple of buffs... I agree for cruisers and above.. But the fact is that for t1 frigates that utility high is largely useless unless you're going around trying to hero tackle harbingers or something.

Concerning the Tristan, you appear to be doing it wrong. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#266 - 2013-03-20 14:31:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning guys, as always thanks for the feedback and comments. I'm going to go over a few questions from the thread so far and then I have one small update to the plan.


What about incursus? Maybe add a little cap/cap rech. to substitute bonus nerf?
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#267 - 2013-03-20 15:08:54 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Am I the only person in this thread who thinks the Tristan, Breacher, and Kestrel are already borderline OP?


name one good thing about the tristan except its good looks (you can't)

Neuts, drones, tank...


Did you seriously just suggest that Drones and the tank were good things? The tank is meh and drones tend to be a bit useless.


As for someone saying here above that NOS's should be sweet on amarr ships with a couple of buffs... I agree for cruisers and above.. But the fact is that for t1 frigates that utility high is largely useless unless you're going around trying to hero tackle harbingers or something.

Concerning the Tristan, you appear to be doing it wrong. Smile


Only way you can get a decent tank out of the tristan is with going all tank lows and even then its sorta substandard.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Commandante Chongo
Bored Bitter Vet
#268 - 2013-03-20 15:09:31 UTC
Naglfar

Please don't change the dual weapon setup. If you do this then it makes the ship just like the others. The advantage of training for the Naglfar is that even if it takes you longer to master you can have the highest dps dreadnaught. It is a pain in the ass to train up 2 capital weapons so the tradeoff is you can have the highest dps. Eve tends to be "you get what you put into it" so if you put in the extra time u get more dps in this case.

DONT DO IT!!
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#269 - 2013-03-20 15:54:19 UTC
Commandante Chongo wrote:
The advantage of training for the Naglfar is that even if it takes you longer to master you can have the highest dps dreadnaught.


Are you sure you're playing the same game?

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
#270 - 2013-03-20 17:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Nares
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Why does the Merlin have so much lockrange? (originally from the other thread)
In this case the lockrange advantage of the Merlin and Kestrel was not designed primarily to help with long range weapons (although that's a big plus for the Kestrel) but because we tend to build lockrange advantages into the Caldari race as part of their racial flavour and to help them counter their enemy ewar (sensor damps). The fact that those two ships are a bit more resistant to damps is not an accident.


Merlin is a relatively slow brawler with 62.5 km lock range.

After 2 unbonused dampeners it has 22.6 km of lock range. T1-T2 disruptor ranges are 20-24km, I remind.
In another words, it isn't affected by them at all.

1 bonused dampener - 26km lock range. Unaffected.

After applying 2 (two!) bonused dampeners it has 12.8km lock range. Still almost all web range.
I'd name this barely affected.

It's damn too damp-resistant for a brawler. Caldari power? Ugh

62.5km for a kestrel is alright or maybe even less than expected for a ship capable to fire light missiles 100 km away.

CCP Fozzie wrote:

RIFTER:
+1 PWG
+50 Armor


How does this solve problems?

The problem is that rifter cannot kite blaster ships (incursus) on the end of scram range as it did before and as AC platforms are supposed to do. It is too slow for this and its DPS (and damage projection) is no more enough for this. Speed and DPS, two main causes.
Small autocannons (or at least rifter as AC platform) loose their superiority in versatility parameter to blasters loaded with nulls (especially ones coupled with a pair of ambit rigs).

I know that small blasters vs ACs balance is a complicated question, but now it is answered by CCP with noticeable bias to blasters.
My opinion that small blasters were OK even before boosts.

Hope you'll understand...
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#271 - 2013-03-20 21:41:52 UTC
Regarding lock ranges, certainly seems as though the rifter, punisher and incursus could do with 5-10km extra at least.

Rifter could still use a little love, feels even more like the amour minmatar frigate but in that configuration DPS is a little low, fall off bonus for tracking or maybe a fourth turret, alternatively up the damage bonus up to 7.5% like the Firetail.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#272 - 2013-03-21 00:57:30 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Concerning the Tristan, you appear to be doing it wrong. Smile


It sounds like you're implying that a 3 neut afterburner setup is good. It's not.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#273 - 2013-03-21 04:14:18 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Concerning the Tristan, you appear to be doing it wrong. Smile

It sounds like you're implying that a 3 neut afterburner setup is good. It's not.

It may be better than you think.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#274 - 2013-03-21 07:24:03 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Commandante Chongo wrote:
The advantage of training for the Naglfar is that even if it takes you longer to master you can have the highest dps dreadnaught.


Are you sure you're playing the same game?


I think he means that if you train everything you need for a well-skilled Naglfar then you should be rewarded with higher DPS. Obviously that isn't the case currently.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#275 - 2013-03-21 08:22:45 UTC
Commandante Chongo wrote:
Naglfar

Please don't change the dual weapon setup. If you do this then it makes the ship just like the others. The advantage of training for the Naglfar is that even if it takes you longer to master you can have the highest dps dreadnaught. It is a pain in the ass to train up 2 capital weapons so the tradeoff is you can have the highest dps. Eve tends to be "you get what you put into it" so if you put in the extra time u get more dps in this case.

DONT DO IT!!


EFT warriors AWAY!

No.
Neugeniko
Insight Securities
#276 - 2013-03-21 12:54:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
And for the quick update to the plan, we are looking at adding 1 Powergrid to the Rifter in this pass. Let us know what you think.


Fiddling with 15 fits of mine the changes translate to about a
5% buff to the effectiveness of the rifter.

Not a insignificant start.

Neug

Indices/Mining Simulator V6.41 UPDATED*

Daily Forge Mineral Sales Summary V1.5

Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate V1.3
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#277 - 2013-03-21 14:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Concerning the Tristan, you appear to be doing it wrong. Smile


It sounds like you're implying that a 3 neut afterburner setup is good. It's not.

Like everything else in EvE it's situational.

Would I take it on a Null Sec roam with a bunch of MWD fit frigates? No.
Does it have uses outside that? Oh hell yes. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Alek Row
Silent Step
#278 - 2013-03-21 14:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alek Row
Neugeniko wrote:

Fiddling with 15 fits of mine the changes translate to about a
5% buff to the effectiveness of the rifter.


The issue with the Rifter is not fixable with 1 PG.
What role can you have with the rifter + 1PG that you don't have already? Is better than the slasher for it?
Despite the initial sarcasm, more PG is always good.
A few examples to fully demonstrate your statement would be a nice thing to have.
Otherwise, it seems you are only throwing more wood into the fire, nothing more.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#279 - 2013-03-21 14:34:34 UTC
I don't understand how other changes to the meta can make the punisher/rifter not ****..

You know unless you plan to nerf everything else....

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#280 - 2013-03-21 18:00:07 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Concerning the Tristan, you appear to be doing it wrong. Smile


It sounds like you're implying that a 3 neut afterburner setup is good. It's not.

Like everything else in EvE it's situational.

Would I take it on a Null Sec roam with a bunch of MWD fit frigates? No.
Does it have uses outside that? Oh hell yes. Smile


Sitting at 0 in novice plexes? It's not even very good at that.